Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

434 starting problem update

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
AL Sproule

11-19-2005 11:18:25




Report to Moderator

One last thing to ask. Here is the update. I had a short in the middle of my wiring harness under the fuel tank, bad spot to get at so I ran another wire to bypass it. Still did not work. So today I cut all the wires in the harness on one side of the tractor and pulled them through to get a better look..
Turns out every single wire had lost its insulation. It looked like someone had left the wires in salt water for a year.I don't know what these guy's did when they FIXED it but that was a mess.
So now that I have run all new wires I am left with one black wire. It was in the harness coming down from the solenoid regulator coil area but did not run under the tractor like the others. Now the tractor will not turn over with the key but I jump started it at the solenoid and it runs. I think that the black wire must be the one to start it. I tried it at the neg and pos sides of the battery and still did not start.
Any ideas.
PS Just have to say thanks again for putting up with me LOL.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
JB2

11-19-2005 19:18:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to AL Sproule, 11-19-2005 11:18:25  
Hi Al, I have the wiring diagram for B414 gas and Diesel. The 434 Diesel wiring is much the same as the B414 gas model, except for the glow plug connection to the ignition switch. The glow plugs are activated by pushing and holding the ignition switch in.
Do the glow plugs work?
There should be a heavy wire coming from the battery terminal of the starter solenoid going to the amp meter if installed or to the fuse panel then connected to the #1 terminal of the ignition switch. Terminal #3 of the ignition switch goes to the S terminal on the starter solenoid. This is the wire that will supply the 12V to energize the starter solenoid. On the 434D there should be another heavy wire from the ignition switch to the glow plug indicator. The #2 terminal on the ignition switch will power the dash idiot lights.

Hope this helps
JB2

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AL Sproule

11-20-2005 05:40:51




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to JB2, 11-19-2005 19:18:50  
Thanks JB mine is a gas engine. Thanks for the tip. I just have one black wire that looks to be running out of the regulator and went into the harness then disapeared LOL.
I tried it to gound and positve and did not energize the tractors solenoid. Mind you all my lights work again, getting there slowly LOL
AL



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John T

11-19-2005 13:51:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to AL Sproule, 11-19-2005 11:18:25  
Al, I dont know beans about any 434, so go with what Old or ElToro says over me, but heres my generic thoughts which may help or may hurt lol NO WARRANTY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED.

On many key type spring start switches, the terminals are like BAT for the hot voltage input from the ammeter or voltage regulator etc.,,,,, ,,IGN which powers up an ignition coil on gas engines whe the keys in the ON position,,,,, ,maybe an ACC terminal for accessories when key turned backwards,,,,, and often one thats unlabelded or by itself etc is what powers up the starter solenoids lil S activation terminal when the key is in the Start position.

See if the solenoid has a lil S activation terminal??? If so its what requires voltage to engage the solenoid, and if you hot wire jump it from a hot battery cable it will engage. Thennnnn nnn its gotta be connected to whatever terminal on the switch thats HOT ONLY WHEN IN START POSITION.

Use a test lamp to insure the switch indeed has a hot voltage feed to its BAT input terminal. That would be fed like off an ammeter or the BAT terminal on a Voltage Regulator etc, somethign thats ALWAYS HOT. Then put the lamp on the switches lil terminals to find which one is hot ONLY when in the start position, and wire it to tHe solenoids lil S activation terminal.

NOTE this assumes the solenoid really has a lil activation terminal (usually labeled S) and the solenoid works????? I say that cuz when you mentioned you jumped it at the solenoid, Im not sure if you jumped voltage to the lil S terminal or you jumped around the solenid to crank the motor????? ? Most solenoids are case grounded, meaning their frame or mounting screws require a frame ground IN WHICH CASE IT WONT WORK IF NOT GROUNDED. See if the solenoid is grounded or needs a ground wire etc. CUZ IF NO GROUND SHE WONT WORK REGARDLESS WHAT YOU WIRE TO IT !!!

Thats all I have to say about that

John T

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
El Toro

11-19-2005 14:53:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to John T, 11-19-2005 13:51:22  
Hi John, It should crank the engine by jumping
across from the one small hot terminal to the s terminal with a screwdriver. Hal



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John T

11-19-2005 18:16:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to El Toro, 11-19-2005 14:53:43  
Hal, Thanks for the info. I had no idea what solenoid that tractor has ???? Does the solenoid on that tractor have what you call a "small hot terminal" on it ?? Most generic ones are only hot on the "big terminal" where the input battery cable attaches???? Other Ford type solenoids have an additional lil I terminal which is HOT ONLY when the solenoid is activated n were used to by pass an ignition ballast resistor. When I jump them with a wire or screwdriver or pocket knife etc I jump from the big battery cable input post to the lil S activation terminal which makes em crank if the battery n starter is good n the solenoid engages.

I dont really understand why he cant get the solenoid to engage if he ran a wire direct from the battery to the solenoids S terminal unless the solenoid is bad or not grounded????? ? or Im not understanding his post????

These things arent rocket scienc n pretty easy to dignose if there with a test lamp, but can be a lil tricky over the net lol

Yall buhave now

John T

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
El Toro

11-19-2005 18:58:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to John T, 11-19-2005 18:16:06  
The other end of new black wire may not have been connected to the s terminal on the solenoid. It should have cranked if it was connected when he touched the wire to the battery. Hal



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
El Toro

11-19-2005 12:16:21




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to AL Sproule, 11-19-2005 11:18:25  
As old has said, connecting that black wire to your ignition switch will complete the start circuit to your solenoid. That terminal on the switch should only have voltage when your key is in the start position. You need to make sure the
other end of that new black wire is connected to the S terminal on the solenoid too. When you placed the black wire on the battery posts it should've cranked the engine if the other end is connected to the solenoid. Hal

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
old

11-19-2005 11:37:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to AL Sproule, 11-19-2005 11:18:25  
Is that black wire maybe the one that should be hooked to the soliniod. If you have a key switch start up set up then on the back of the switch there should be a stud post or what ever you want to call it that should say start or have an S run a wire from it to the solinoid and that should get it to start with the switch.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AL Sproule

11-19-2005 12:07:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to old, 11-19-2005 11:37:16  
I have it hooked up the same way I got it after it was fixed and it did start and run. I have a wire from the S terminal hooked up.now. I think it is from the regular and have tried it at ground and still nothing.
AL



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Janicholson

11-19-2005 14:52:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to AL Sproule, 11-19-2005 12:07:53  
Experiment.
Check the end of the black wire with a volt meter (or test lamp) if it has voltage when the key is turned to the start position, that wire (and only that wire) should be going to the "S" terminal. No wires ever go from the regulator to the "S" term.
They will go from the Bat terminal of the Regulator to the Battery cable side of the solenoid with a bigger terminal end to fit the stud.
A manual may be the functional difference.
Good Luck, JimN

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
AL Sproule

11-19-2005 18:27:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: 434 starting problem update in reply to Janicholson, 11-19-2005 14:52:31  
Thanks again guy's. Like I said that one pesky black wire that I cannot see where it was run to. Will have to check it out again. The big problem is also that the last ower painted the tractor and now 99.7% of the wires are RED... LOL.
Thanks again will keep you posted.
AL



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy