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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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M Engine

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wareagle

11-16-2005 19:30:51




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I am working on a Super M. After pulling the Head to un stick #3 Cylinder I have decided to re ring the engine. After pulling the piston it was apparent that the choice was correct as all three rings were stuck soundly in the piston. Otherwise the engine had a small ring groove and does not show signs of wear. My question has to do with the proper spec for engine rings. I do not have a bore gage but the piston measured at 4.120. I have been told that an M is supposed to be a 4.0 but some people chose to rebuild with a thinner sleeve to add volume to the engine. Is this correct and if so what kind of problems will I encounter in purchasing the correct ring. Someone please shed some knowledge on this subject.

I considered using a local IH dealer until I found that it will cost more than twice the price from YT. Yeah I am stingy.

The I D Tag on the tractor is L-505551-JA.

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captaink

11-17-2005 07:33:50




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 Re: M Engine in reply to wareagle, 11-16-2005 19:30:51  
I would suggest definitely getting the cylinder measured for bore and taper. More than just a few thousandths taper and your rings won’t last long because they will be “working” (changing diameter) every time the piston moves up and down the cylinder.

You have the 4 and 1/8 in inch over bore and this was done to increase the cubic inch displacement and increase power. Are your pistons flat or do they have a “step” on them? I ask because if you are planning on doing a show tractor then maybe you can get by with just rings. If you are planning on working this tractor, I’d seriously consider a sleeve and piston kit, and going with a stepped piston. You will have more power, and basically a fresh engine when you are done. I know more money also…

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wareagle

11-17-2005 15:01:13




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 Re: M Engine in reply to captaink, 11-17-2005 07:33:50  
The Tractor has stepped or dome pistons. I will probably not work the tractor appreciably as we have other stuff to get dirty but like to make good sounds and show it to friends. Mostly it's a challenge. Can I check for bore taper using ring end gap measurements from the bottom of the stroke to the top of the stroke. I get your point about the effects of taper. I thought I knew a little about engine building but I never considered taper since all my other projects were Automotive and followed engine machining. Is a sleeve change easy enough or is it hard to pull the old ones and push the new ones back in on this engine?

If this tractor was originally a distillate engine, was it a super M as I thought or was the Super only for those higher compression engines? Also, are there differences between a distillate carb and a gasoline carb?

Another question.. Most of the M tractors I have seen were without fenders including ours and also our 400. Did people just remove these and loose them or was this an option?

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captaink

11-17-2005 20:16:21




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 Re: M Engine in reply to wareagle, 11-17-2005 15:01:13  
Yes, you can check for taper, but remember that for every 0.001 change in end gap the circumference (not the diameter) changes by 0.001. If I’m thinking right that means for every 0.003 change in end gap, the cylinder has tapered in diameter about 0.001 inch.

Replacing a sleeve is not too hard. A sleeve puller is ideal, but you can use a welder and weld beads vertically on the inside of the sleeve. When the welds cool, the sleeve will shrink enough to come out easily. Toss the new sleeves in your freezer and they will shrink enough to go easily into the block by hand.

The main differences I know of between an M and a SM were the bore (3 7/8” for the M and 4” for the Super M and 3 & 4 th gears were higher speed in the SM. I don’t know about the carb.

As far as fenders, I think they were an option.

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colekicker

11-17-2005 17:07:55




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 Re: M Engine in reply to wareagle, 11-17-2005 15:01:13  
Tell your dearler to get off his high horse if he wants your business. This ticks me off so bad when a dealer tries to make so much off simple parts. Tell him to crack out his TISCO book. Those rings can't be too bad. Seems liked they'd think about scratching your back every now and again just to get their back scratched.



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El Toro

11-17-2005 04:04:02




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 Re: M Engine in reply to wareagle, 11-16-2005 19:30:51  
The ring gap on new piston rings should measure from .013" to .023" when placed in your old sleeves. If your ring gap exceeds the .023" the sleeves are probably worn too much. You should have someone measure the sleeves for wear and taper. Rings are probably available from Wengers
in PA. 1-800-451-5240 Hal



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DWV

11-16-2005 20:01:34




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 Re: M Engine in reply to wareagle, 11-16-2005 19:30:51  
You need rings for whats called 4 and 1/8 inch bore.Measure ring thickness to make sure on getting correct ones.The A after serial # shows the tractor originaly was low compression distillate burning engine.



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