Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long )

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Randy-IA

11-04-2005 16:30:43




Report to Moderator

Hi all , I took the drain plug out of the M . About a cup of water came out before the sludge started which by the way looked like whipped milk . So I removed the pan . It all look's good up in there but the oil pump pickup was about 99% plugged with gunk and grass and yuk . Took it apart and cleaned it . The bottom of the piston's don't have any burned on oil deposit's and the sleeves looked shiney , no crosshatch left but also no serious wear mark's or scratches as far as I could see so I put it back together and filled it with oil and started it up . The pan doesn't leak but the front crank seal does . Is this a doable fix with the motor still in the tractor ? I also drained some gear oil out of the front of the transmission and guess what ? Oil looked like whipped milk ! Water is in everything ! I know that the antifreeze can't make it to the final drive so I'm hoping the water in both of them was just condensation . There was new antifreeze in the motor when I brought it home and it doesn't appear to have dropped any but I haven't ran it much either . 13 Gallon's of gear oil ! That'll empty out the bank account ! But maybe it'll quiet the beast down on the road . All 9 gear's work good but it growl's going down the road which might be because the gear oil was so low in the box that I couldn't see it through the check hole with a flashlight AND it has water in it . I'm just going to put new oil in it and if it doesn't all run out onto the ground I'm going to run it that way till I get around to fixing it right , maybe next year . It also start's very easy so far but it does miss at low rpm's to about 1/3rd throttle . 1/2 throttle on up it seems to do OK with no load but since I ripped off the muffler to get the thing home without it breaking off it spit's fire when it miss's and when it's moved to wide open very fast . I haven't checked out the the hydrualic oil yet ( I suspect there isn't any ) and the belt pulley won't engage . It doesn't actually have the pulley so that's something I'll have to scrounge up sometime . All in all , if the crankcase doesn't fill up with antifreeze , I'm satisfied . Now I think that I did my normal job of paying too much for it but it's not that bad . Just don't tell me I got took - That's the story of my life , I trust everyone . Ya know what W.C. Fields said ( or was it P.T. Barnum ? ) about suckers - I represent that statement ! I'm not able to change now ! Take care ...Randy

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Rich Iowa

11-05-2005 04:17:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Randy-IA, 11-04-2005 16:30:43  
The joys of buying used farm machinery. I was amazed when I changed the oil out of the back of my H couple years ago. Doesn"t look like it"d hold that much. I can"t help with the front seal question, because my H leaks at the rear PTO shaft and the belly pump leaks. As long as you are happy with it, doesn"t matter what ya paid.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy-IA

11-05-2005 06:59:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Rich Iowa, 11-05-2005 04:17:18  
Hi Rich , Thanks for the support ! It is , after all , a project tractor to a point , I'm not looking to restore it just bring it back to a useful life and maybe a rattle can paint job next summer . I might have to cut the last 2 acres of my hay this weekend , this warm weather let it grow to tall to let it overwinter . I need to get it shortened up a bit . And the new stand is pretty bad again , I'm not shaping up to be a very good hay maker :"( . I might have to replant again next spring . Basically , I'm just impatient . You ready for winter if it ever get's here ? Take care ...Randy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Rich Iowa

11-05-2005 13:08:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Randy-IA, 11-05-2005 06:59:34  
Randy, My stand is starting to look a little thin, but it was est. about 6-7 years ago. So I guess I can"t complain to much. I bought a 14 foot disk a few weeks back and of course, had to try it out. Tore up a little patch, hopefully it"ll come back next spring. I finally got my soil test results back this week. Fortunately, it took so long that the price of fuel went down a bit. I have plenty of Phosphorus, but have to add quite a bit of Potassium, but that"s a diff. post right there. I"m ready to play with my 4-wheeler in the snow, not looking forward to plugging my truck in, and letting it warm up for 15 min. to drive 15 min. to work. Never hurts to have another tractor around to mess with. Rich

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
P and R Pete

11-04-2005 17:09:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Randy-IA, 11-04-2005 16:30:43  
13 GALLONS??



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy-IA

11-04-2005 19:44:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to P and R Pete, 11-04-2005 17:09:53  
Yup , About $100 just to change the gear oil ! And that's wally world's house brand . I haven't checked prices at other places yet , that's Saturday's mission . ...Randy



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CNKS

11-04-2005 17:49:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to P and R Pete, 11-04-2005 17:09:53  
Fill capacity of the trans/diff for an M is indeed 13 gallons, that's oil not added water.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy-IA

11-04-2005 20:15:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to CNKS, 11-04-2005 17:49:36  
Hi CNKS , Can you tell me what the hydraulic uses and how much ? My dipstick is missing if it had one like the dealer service manager said it should . All it has is a pipe cap on it . If it makes a difference it has a belly pump . And does the belt pulley housing have is own oil supply ? If so , how is that checked , I haven't really looked at it yet . All I know is that it doesn't engage . That kind of bug's me . Take care and Thanks ....Randy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
farmallhal

11-05-2005 06:22:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Randy-IA, 11-04-2005 20:15:17  
Randy, I just saw a M belly pump hydraulic dipstick on EBay. It is item # 7559701827 if interested. Sometimes these things go for big bucks. Hal



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
farmallhal

11-05-2005 06:08:48




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Randy-IA, 11-04-2005 20:15:17  
Randy, you are sure going to like your owners manual when it arrives. The M hydraulic pump holds 6 quarts. You can make a dipstick from a piece of .125" dia. straight wire by welding a washer on the top so it can't fall down the filler neck. Mark it at the 5 quart and 6 quart levels as you fill it and you have a dipstick. I use 30 wt. non-detergent motor oil (detergent will foam and cause problems). A lot of folks here on the forum will suggest Hy-Tran which is thinner and more prone to leaking. Depending on what you are going to use yur hydraulics for and if you are in cold climate that will also help you decide. You might want to use whatever you use with any other tractors so the fluid is common to everything. I've heard even the green tractor stuff is fine. I don't think those old hydraulic systems were fluid sensitive. If you have a pipe cap on your belly pump filler neck it should have a small hole for venting.
On your belt drive system it is lubricated with the fluid from the differential/transmission. If you take it apart for any reason you will need to add fluid (same as in tranny) so you have instant lubrication instead of the splash system supplying the lubricant. Just fill it through the plug on the top of the gearbox and it will hold somewhere between a pint and a quart. This is well covered in the owners manual. Have fun and enjoy that new M. Hal

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy-IA

11-05-2005 07:30:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to farmallhal, 11-05-2005 06:08:48  
Hi Hal , You are most definetly right about the manual ! I try and get all the manual's I can for all the equipment I own including all my pickup's . I've got manual's for everything - except this tractor ;') . So sorry for all the question's BUT ... They will diminish but not go away even after I get the manual's . Got a manual ( reprint ) from B I N D E R book's for $26.95 , could have gotten the same one from CaseIH for $12.50 ! Me spending to much again !

Thanks for the lead to the dipstick ! And for all the info ! My " Green " tractor uses " prefered 55 " in the hydraulic's . So I could use that ? I know that the Oliver hydrualic system's are fluid sensitive due to some kind of white metal bushing's they used . By the way , do you know if the front seal can be changed without removing the motor ? Thanks again ! Take care ...Randy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
farmallhal

11-05-2005 15:46:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Randy-IA, 11-05-2005 07:30:16  
Randy, I've never replaced a front oil seal on any Farmall so can't give you specifics. I looked at the "exploded views" in my M Service Manual and it appears it can be replaced from the front of the tractor with the engine still installed. The manual shows a recess for the seal which is accessible from the front. You will have to remove the crankshaft pulley as it fits back behind it. The "exploded view" in the M parts catalog shows it installs in the front engine cover. Can't really tell if the cover has to be removed in order to remove the old seal or not. Worst case would be having to remove the engine cover along with whatever else is up front to obtain working space. My guess it would then have to be pressed out of the cover and the new one pressed in from the front and the cover reinstalled on the engine. Someone on this forum has done this before and maybe just start a new post on front engine oil crankshaft seal replacement. The part no. of the seal in my parts catalog is 53872D for s/n's from FBKM 5205 and up.
I don't know if you will need to remove the radiator or not but if you do this will be the time to take care of any leaks or steering problems with sector gear, bearings, bushings and seals in the steering worm gear housing and upper bolster.
Hope this helps but you need someone who has been there to totally answer this question. Hal

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy-IA

11-05-2005 17:13:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to farmallhal, 11-05-2005 15:46:45  
Hi Hal , Well now it look's like I need to fix a small leak in the radiator also . Sure need that manual ! A service manual need's to be found also . When I had the oil pan off it looked like I'd need to remove it again to remove the front cover , so I hope the front cover doesn't need to come off . The leak ( oil ) seem's small so I'll wait and see . The problem I have is I don't have anywhere inside to work on it . I work in the grass next to the gravel driveway . So when it get's cold thing's slow WAY down . Thanks again for all your help ! ...Randy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
farmallhal

11-06-2005 05:49:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Randy-IA, 11-05-2005 17:13:00  
I got my GSS-5033 Service Manual from the CaseIH dealer. I also have an IT shop manual no IH-8. The parts catalog is TC-28F and is available from CaseIH or here on this site or Binder B@@ks. All of these are for a Farmall M. Wrong time of year to be outside working on a tractor if you are in the northern areas. Hal



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy-IA

11-06-2005 19:20:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to farmallhal, 11-06-2005 05:49:25  
Hi Hal , Thanks again ! I work outside year round with my job so it's not a big deal . Though the arthiritis in my hand's bother's me more this year than it has in the past when my hand's get cold . I deal with it . I'm still amused at the kid's ( 19 - 35 year olds ) , they are already wearing 3 layer's of carhart's and it hasn't even stayed below freezing yet ! I am still only wearing one sweatshirt and plain jean's , but I'm the one with the gloves on - not them :'( . Take care ...Randy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RAW in IA

11-04-2005 16:46:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Randy-IA, 11-04-2005 16:30:43  
If it has beensitting outside a lot, water in the transmission is normal. Comes in around the gearshift liver I think. Some will get so bad if not drained regularly that theywill freeze up and not move in the winter. Need to loosen the drainplug once in a while to drain off the water after it has sat a while. My cub did the same thing. Was real noisy till I changed the oil, but it only holds about a quart!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy-IA

11-04-2005 20:02:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to RAW in IA, 11-04-2005 16:46:36  
Yeah , It's to bad I don't know any history on it . It might have been recently drug out of a woodlot as far as I know . It'll be some time till I get the gear oil , so I'm going to drain it for now and let it sit empty so it doesn't freeze in there and break something and I'll fill it when I can . To many iron's in the fire . Take care ...Randy



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Allan in NE

11-04-2005 16:35:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Randy-IA, 11-04-2005 16:30:43  
Randy,

They do that. Change your fluids, run it and watch it. Chances are it is just fine.

Allan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy-IA

11-04-2005 20:25:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Water good , in oil -bad ! ( long ) in reply to Allan in NE, 11-04-2005 16:35:18  
Hi Allan , I hope it is ! I looked in the check plug opening at the gear's and saw that they were pretty rust pitted :"( I'm not that worried about it though . All it's going to do around here for the forseeable future is run the grain elevator at hay time and pull the hay rake maybe the 990 mo-co .

Question - Do you know if the front seal can be changed without removing the motor or crank , It look's like it should be ? Thanks ....Randy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy