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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum

what octane to run??

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fenton

10-21-2005 10:49:43

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Sorry to bug you guys again.I'm adding lead substitute to the gas, but is regular high enough for the old '52 Farmall A? I know the old flat head sixer's had hardend Stellite valve seats so unleaded is ok in them, but what about the 113 cid fours in these old gals?

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Hugh MacKay

10-23-2005 02:49:58

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to fenton, 10-21-2005 10:49:43

Fenton: Save your money and time 87 octane with no lead is just fine. Farmall engines operating at IH specs are certainly not high rpm or high performance engines.

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Don L C

10-21-2005 21:18:12

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to fenton, 10-21-2005 10:49:43

Hi Fenton:

Save your money and quit using lead substitute in any thing.....When I was working I was in contact with the research dept. of several oil companies....I was using substitute in a '76 ford 460 in a motorhome and a farmall 400 gas...It was called "Ensted a lead" (not sure of spelling)They said I was waisting my money.....I quit using it....no problems after about 60,000 mi. and the farmall is doing fine..... .use 87 oct.....

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sammy the RED

10-21-2005 13:00:21

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to fenton, 10-21-2005 10:49:43

The Farmall H engine was designed to operate on 70-72 octane.

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old

10-21-2005 11:14:38

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to fenton, 10-21-2005 10:49:43

The cheap gas wirks just fine in an old tractor engine and forget the lead subtitute, its a waste of money and by the way it doesn't have lead in it. Its just something to waste money on and doesn't do much if any good.

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r-cubed

10-21-2005 21:11:23

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to old, 10-21-2005 11:14:38

Unleaded gas WILL ruin the valve seats of early engines made before about 1970 if they are run hard. I have a 1960 Chev 283 engine that was ruined because of that. Had to put later heads on it. I would think the lead additive isn"t neaded if you just putt-putt around. And it certainly isn"t needed to improve the octane for a tractor.

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Hugh MacKay

10-23-2005 02:43:21

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to r-cubed, 10-21-2005 21:11:23

r-cubed: Just to add to what old has said, your 283 GM engine is probably turning 1500 rpm higher than these tractors most of the time. Lead additives were only ever needed for high RPM, high performance engines. Farmall engines operating at manufacturers specs don't fall in either catergory

I've worked tractors such as Farmalls SA, 130 and 300 gassers and worked them damn hard. Have poked 3 Imp. gallons through 300 on many ocasions. Have been doing this since unleaded was first introduced. I guarentee these engines will need rebiulding as a result of rings, cylinder and crank wear long before the top end creates problems.

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old

10-22-2005 08:36:05

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to r-cubed, 10-21-2005 21:11:23

By the way your also compareing apples to oranges. Car/truck engines are a lot higher compression then a tractor engine and thats why the unleaded gas caused you the problem. Low compression engines don't have the same type of problems as the higher compression engines do

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old

10-22-2005 08:12:31

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to r-cubed, 10-21-2005 21:11:23

Nope the unleaded gas doesn't hurt valves. I work all my tractors and run unleaded in them and have for the past 20 years and have never had any problems with valves etc. My newest tractor is a 1964 and my oldest is a 1935 and all of them are work tractors and do get worked hard and long with no problems with the gas.

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Red Dave

10-30-2005 15:37:35

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to old, 10-22-2005 08:12:31

Yep!

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old

10-21-2005 11:14:11

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to fenton, 10-21-2005 10:49:43

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John T

10-21-2005 11:06:15

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to fenton, 10-21-2005 10:49:43

I dont see higher octane as much help in reducing valve wear, but as harder to ignite (as octane increases) to prevent pre ignition spark knock when higher compression necessitates it. Most older tractor engines ran relatively low compression, such that 87 octane is sufficient to prevent pre ignition, while running higher octane then necessary (harder to ignite) gas is only a waste.

I do agree the lead (or a substitute) can reduce valve wear by lubing and cushioning the "valve to seat" impact and preventing sticking, but was not aware in unleaded gas increasing the octane could serve any similar function??

I guess what Im saying is if valve wear is an issue, I would address it by adding lead or substitutes as opposed to using higher octane gas, and in most stock compression tractors 87 octane is plenty.

Take care n have a good weekend

John T

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Nat

10-21-2005 12:15:37

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to John T, 10-21-2005 11:06:15

You weren't aware of it because it's not true.

Running higher octane does nothing to lubricate the valve seats or extend their lives. With these low-compression gas engines, it's a waste of money.

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fenton

10-21-2005 11:09:19

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to John T, 10-21-2005 11:06:15

Thanks John...sorry I ran two questions into one mix. Sounds like 87 is the octane to use and sounds like these old girls had softer valve seats so I'll run the lead in my pencil....

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Hugh MacKay

10-23-2005 02:26:54

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to fenton, 10-21-2005 11:09:19

Andy: I quite agree, the vet repairs them, but does he know exactly how many hours of service are on those engines. So from a mechanic to and engineer then on to a guy that farmed with these tractors, and put lot of hours on them. My recomendation is buy the lowest octane you can, and forget that foolish idea of lead additives. Tractor engines are not high RPM, high performance engines, and not by a long shot.

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Jack B. Nimble

10-21-2005 12:54:59

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to fenton, 10-21-2005 11:09:19

In the 20s and 30s gas was only about 50 octane and had NO lead. As engine technology got better(higher compression) the lead was added to prevent knocking from pre ignition, not to protect the valve train as is the common myth. In the early 70s they discoved the lead was killing us and replaced it with other anti-knock additives. In a low compression engine higher octane will do NOTHING but create harder starting and empty your wallet. Anything with a compression ratio of 9:1 or lower(like your tractor) will do fine on 87 octane. Lead Substitute is petroleum distillate(naptha) and oil, not lead. Mostly a scam.

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the tractor vet

10-21-2005 16:47:03

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to Jack B. Nimble, 10-21-2005 12:54:59

Just go ahead and run the 87or even the 89 in a 460-856 gasser and work it hard and see what happens , hope ya got a big check book . If i had a good digital camra i would show you the end results i now have a good collection of gasser pistons that have seen the cheep gas and if ya ever read and owner manual it will tell ya But i only fix tractors so what do i know .

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Andy Martin

10-22-2005 06:14:31

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to the tractor vet, 10-21-2005 16:47:03

You usually give such good advice, but here you missed the point the guy only has an A.

I run cheap gas in my M"s and work them hard and never have a problem. 30 years.

Any engine designed for distillate will not need lead, and I believe the low compression of an A doesn"t need lead either. But I"m only a mechanical engineer so what do I know?

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Brutus

10-21-2005 12:53:24

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Re: what octane to run?? in reply to fenton, 10-21-2005 11:09:19

Doesn't a pencil actually contain graphite??

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