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My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A

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Philip in Maine

10-15-2005 13:24:58




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The tractor was running okay before I started, just a little rough, so I gave her a tuneup. I replaced spark plugs, plug wires, rotor, cap, and points. I have go back to get right condenser. Turns over good and I can smell fuel like it flooded. When I test to see if spark is at the plug I see it isn't getting spark to the plugs. It's 12 volt ingition sys.with an alternator. Something looks to me to be an internal coil that the distributor is attached to, about 1.5" diameter and 2" across, can this cause the loss of electical supply? Can the old condenser be the culprit? Those are the only two things in the system unchanged.

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El Toro

10-17-2005 03:49:58




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-15-2005 13:24:58  
Is this a magneto or distributor? If it's a mag
it will have an impulse coupling. The coil on the mag is installed internally within the mag,
with a distributor the coil would be mounted externally and would have the coil wire from the coil installed in the center of the distr. cap.

Since it ran before installing new points, I would reinstall the old points. .013" for a mag
and .020" for a distr. If this is mag, did you remove the mag from the engine? Hal

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El Toro

10-20-2005 03:58:45




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to El Toro, 10-17-2005 03:49:58  
Hi Dave, Are there any numbers on that mag? It should have IH4 on it, these were used on a lot of the lettered tractors. Hal



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Philip in Maine

10-19-2005 17:23:19




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to El Toro, 10-17-2005 03:49:58  
third party image

Hal, Can you tell me if this a magneto or a distributor? I put a meter on the unit and have flow form the power lead to the plug wires. I would think the flow would or should be interupted at the points unless the contacts were touching. Is this correct?

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El Toro

10-22-2005 06:15:36




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-19-2005 17:23:19  
Any luck with the mag? You're soon going to need that A to push snow. Hal



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Philip in Maine

10-23-2005 13:28:00




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to El Toro, 10-22-2005 06:15:36  
Hal, With your help and that of Gerald Lee of Texas, I went through the system and still am unable to get current to the plugs. Along with suggestions from others I covered alot of possibilities. I thinks it's time I call in a professional. It looks like it might be the coil.

Thanks again for all the help.

Sincerely yours,
Philip



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El Toro

10-28-2005 18:33:31




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-23-2005 13:28:00  
Just checking to see if your A is running. Was the coil the problem? Hal



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Philip in Maine

10-29-2005 09:50:12




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to El Toro, 10-28-2005 18:33:31  
I'm taking the magneto to the shop Monday. I'll let you know how it goes...should take about a week turn around.

Thanks, Philip



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El Toro

10-29-2005 10:07:52




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-29-2005 09:50:12  
Hope they find the problem. Did you notice where the rotor was pointing when you removed the mag? You may have to bring No1 piston near the radiator up on the compression stroke to TDC and have your rotor pointing to No1 in the mag when you install it. Hal



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Philip in Maine

11-01-2005 09:18:29




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to El Toro, 10-29-2005 10:07:52  
Ok here's the skinny, it was me the whole time. When I replace the points I didn't pay attention to the placement of the wire. It was grounding out on the points' chamber cover. I eventually got her running with the determination of my neighbor. Getting the correct stroke on cylinder #1 was problematic cause #4 & #1 are both on the up-srokes together. I switched the wires around and she fired right off. I'm sure I'll have ample opportunity to get it right. Hal, thank you for hanging in there with me.

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El Toro

11-01-2005 12:20:21




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 11-01-2005 09:18:29  
No1 cylinder is always near the radiator. Glad you have it running. Hal



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El Toro

10-23-2005 15:06:29




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-23-2005 13:28:00  
I would take that mag to a shop that repairs mags
and has the equipment to check it out. Those mags
have a kill switch to ground out the mag when shutting down the engine. Was that mag on the tractor when you bought it? If you pulled that mag off the tractor, don't rotate the engine. You should've notice where the rotor was pointing
when you removed it.

Hold on to the end of coil wire that goes into cap and snap the impulse coupling and see if any
fire is present. Those coils do go bad, but I would remove the cover over the coil and take a screwdriver and touch those magnets with the blade to see if the magnets are strong. They should really pull that screwdriver in against the magnet. The magnetic field is what creates the spark from your coil. Hal

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El Toro

10-20-2005 04:03:30




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-19-2005 17:23:19  
Sorry about the wrong name. Hal



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El Toro

10-19-2005 18:49:37




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-19-2005 17:23:19  
It looks to be a mag. Did you pull this mag off the tractor to install the new points and condenser? If you did you may not have installed the mag in time with No1 piston.

Set your point gap at .013" and reinstall rotor and cap. Remove the wire from center of the cap
and hold it within a 1/4" of the mag frame. Have someone turn the mag over using the lugs that are sticking out. There should be a post for the impulse coupling to contact and it will be a little difficult to turn and do this several times and see if you have any spark from that coil wire.

You will need to watch that very closely to see the fire. Post back what you find. Hal

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El Toro

10-16-2005 08:22:31




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-15-2005 13:24:58  
If the wiring is ok,recheck that point gap. Should be .020" for a distributor. Take a cotton swab and dip it in rubbing alcohol rub it between those new points, then see if the tractor will start. Hal



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Charles McNelly III

10-16-2005 17:26:44




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to El Toro, 10-16-2005 08:22:31  
My operators manual says to gap the points at .013 not .020. My tractor is a 47 model.



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El Toro

10-17-2005 03:26:45




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Charles McNelly III, 10-16-2005 17:26:44  
That's true if it's a mag, I thought it was a distributor. Hal



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El Toro

10-16-2005 05:06:50




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-15-2005 13:24:58  
Did you replace your plug wires one at a time? If not, your plug wires may not be in the correct firing order. The plug wires should be in this order if rotor turns CW:
2-1
4-3
No1 plug is near radiator, if rotor turns CCW:
1-2
3-4 Hal



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Philip in Maine

10-16-2005 12:14:05




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to El Toro, 10-16-2005 05:06:50  
Thanks Hal, The plug wires were changed in the group. The engine casing indicates the firing order is 1-3-4-2. Engine turn CW. Regardless of order if I had power to the plugs I should see spark, right?

I followed the Tune-up spec for setting gaps. I'm going back for another set of points.



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El Toro

10-16-2005 15:30:18




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-16-2005 12:14:05  
Are you sure you're getting battery votage at the coil? Use a volt meter & with the ignition switch on check voltage at the coil. Your firing order is 1-3-4-2, but you need to check
the rotor rotation and the plug wires need to be
connected as I described in my earlier posting.

You should see some fire, make sure your wire connections to the points aren't touching ground
inside the distributor, look at the condenser wire
where it's connected to the points and it isn't grounded against the distributor housing. Hal

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Philip in Maine

10-17-2005 12:38:51




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to El Toro, 10-16-2005 15:30:18  
Hal, Thank you for your patience. I"ll be back on it later this week and will keep the group advised. Everyone"s been great with sharing thier experience whether it applies or not.



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Nebraska Cowman

10-16-2005 04:29:56




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-15-2005 13:24:58  
Does your condenser have a screw terminal sticking out one end with no pigtail wire? If so you have a MAGNETO and not a distributor. And yes, that internal coil is the coil. And then on the other hand your magneto could be converted to a battery ignition by adding and external coil. I've seen plenty of those conversions. Can you post a picture of what you have?



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Philip in Maine

10-16-2005 12:21:31




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 10-16-2005 04:29:56  
The condenser has a screw terminal with no pigtail. Does a MAGNETO use a distributor cap? I assumed it to be an internal coil as no external coil exist. I'm not looking to perform any conversions at this point. I'll post a picture next week.



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gene bender

10-16-2005 04:39:04




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 10-16-2005 04:29:56  
What makes you think by adding an external coil makes a mag a dist? It is still a mag as all you have done is replaced the placement of the coil from internal to external.



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NDS

10-16-2005 04:46:46




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to gene bender, 10-16-2005 04:39:04  
Not realy all you are using in magneto are points and maybe condenser. The spark comes from external coil,
been there many times.



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Dave S.

10-15-2005 19:00:09




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-15-2005 13:24:58  
If you need to replace the coil, buy one with a internal resistor and do away with the external one.



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Philip in Maine

10-16-2005 12:28:17




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Dave S., 10-15-2005 19:00:09  
No external coil exist and I believe the present coil has the internal resistor as all that is external to the coil is a red lead, which is attached to the condenser.



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farmallhal

10-15-2005 14:28:51




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-15-2005 13:24:58  
Phillip, the item you are describing as 1.5" in diameter and 2" across might be a ballast resistor. The one I installed when I converted my H to a 12 volt alternator system is like 3.5" long and around 1" wide made out of ceramic material with a wire resistor on the the back side. Those things can and do go out and will prevent battery current from being passed along to the distributor. You can jump across it if it is in fact a ballast resistor to see if your tractor will start. Don't run it very long in the jumped mode as it will tend to burn your points. The purpose of this resistor is to reduce the current to the coil to 6 volts from the 12 volt battery. If you have a meter you can do a quick check across this item and see what is going in and what if anything is coming out with the switch in the on position. The output should be attached to the "+" side of the coil with an alternator system. And yes a bad condensor can certainly be causing your problems. Hope this helps and good luck in finding your problem. Please post back and let us know what you find. Hal

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Philip in Maine

10-15-2005 16:54:12




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to farmallhal, 10-15-2005 14:28:51  
Thank you Hal, very informative. I'll keep all the responders in the loop. A very fine group of fellow tractor chasers.



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Cityboy-McCoy

10-15-2005 14:15:56




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-15-2005 13:24:58  
The good news is: it ain't nothin' serious like a rod sticking out through the oil pan or something similar. You will whip it; after the last 3.5 weeks I went through with my carb, you can do anything with the problem you describe!
These Farmall A's replaced mules, and they can be just as stubborn. But, you can outsmart them, if you stick with it.
mike



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Philip in Maine

10-15-2005 16:58:31




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Cityboy-McCoy, 10-15-2005 14:15:56  
Mike, thank you, I need all the encouragement I can get. Sometimes my wife thinks I'm the mule. Stay tuned I'll post my findings.



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Andrew Z

10-15-2005 13:42:33




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-15-2005 13:24:58  
the points and the condensor are to two major things that can cause loose of spark. I would change that condensor. I had a spark trouble on one the my tractors and turned out to be the condesor.
Andrew



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Philip in Maine

10-15-2005 17:06:43




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Andrew Z, 10-15-2005 13:42:33  
Andrew, thank you, I'm on my way to the parts barn and will post the outcome. Thanks again,



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old

10-15-2005 13:41:44




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to Philip in Maine, 10-15-2005 13:24:58  
Point gap could be wrong/slipped. Alos you may have shorted out the points when you put them in, I've seen that a few times. Even got a tractor a few years ago very cheap because the guy could get it to start and it was because of shorted out points.



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Philip in Maine

10-15-2005 17:09:33




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 Re: My tune up went down hill. 1945 Farmall A in reply to old, 10-15-2005 13:41:44  
Thank you Old, I have copied the tune-up specs and will post the outcome. Stay tuned.



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