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Battery installed backwards

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Jim Isler

08-27-2005 16:08:12




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I just discovered that the battery on my 1953 Super C has been "negative ground" for at least five years. I'd loaned it to a friend while I was out of the country and just brought it "home" this week. What results should I expect to find?




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Lee

08-28-2005 13:25:08




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Jim Isler, 08-27-2005 16:08:12  
You old geezers are all wet LOL. I suppose you might reverse charge it but it's near scrap if that happens. Here is an old article or book I guess you'd call it. Old enough, you guys just might believe it. I picked it special for y'all. Positive and negative plates use different chemical composition pastes in manufacture. Positive plates are are built to be positive plates. Negative plates are built to be negative plates. Read up on it. Look for the comments on reverse charged plates. I'm not saying it can't be done but the bat is shot in my book if it is done.. Link

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gene b

08-29-2005 04:42:47




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Lee, 08-28-2005 13:25:08  
There are books out there all about theory and the guy who wrote them never has got his hands dirty but when you see these things in use and have been working are you still going to beleive the book?



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Jim Isler

08-28-2005 13:34:41




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Lee, 08-28-2005 13:25:08  
Thanks to all of you for your comments and insights. I'd already switched the poles to correct and run the tractor. Seems to run fine, and after 12 hours hadn't drained the battery. As a sidelight, the guy who now admits replacing the battery three years ago opines that he installed it incorrectly, and that since then the spark plugs have fouled after every few hours running.

Principal use by him these past 5 years has been brushhogging his 5 acre weedpatch.

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Lee

08-28-2005 16:48:06




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Jim Isler, 08-28-2005 13:34:41  
My old BN used a Mag. Spark plugs fouled a lot. Never thought to swap the bat polarity. Dang, ya learn something new every day. Just messin wit ya. Hope the bat holds. You'll know when it's about zero outside.



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Lee

08-28-2005 16:48:01




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Jim Isler, 08-28-2005 13:34:41  
My old BN used a Mag. Spark plugs fouled a lot. Never thought to swap the bat polarity. Dang, ya learn something new every day. Just messin wit ya. Hope the bat holds. You'll know when it's about zero outside.



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gene b

08-28-2005 13:03:55




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Jim Isler, 08-27-2005 16:08:12  
Guy brought his 55 FORD into the shop and said radio wouldnt work. Pulled the radio out and put it on the bench worked great. Went out and looked at car and seen the battery was grounded backwards changed the conections and the radio worked fine. Remember this was a vibrator radio and 6v. Yes i have seen batterys that had changed pol. Batt needs to be dead dead first.



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Lee

08-28-2005 07:39:50




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Jim Isler, 08-27-2005 16:08:12  
I've never heard of a bat taking a reverse charge!
If it has it can't be a good thing. What polarity would you hook it up for a boost using a charger or another battery? I'd check it out and fix it right. Batteries can be dangerous if ploarity is not respected.



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Lee

08-28-2005 07:39:28




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Jim Isler, 08-27-2005 16:08:12  
I've never heard of a bat taking a reverse charge!
If it has it can't be a good thing. What polarity would you hook it up for a boost using a charger or another battery? I'd check it out and fix it right. Batteries can be dangerous if ploarity is not respected.



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Allan in NE

08-28-2005 08:31:40




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Lee, 08-28-2005 07:39:28  
Lee,

This subject is just like the "What oil should I use in my engine thing", the doorway which is marked "Employees Only" or the sign that says "Don't Walk On The Grass".

These are human imposed limitations and are not necessarily reality based. :>)

Allan



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Hugh MacKay

08-28-2005 07:56:35




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Lee, 08-28-2005 07:39:28  
Lee: Batteries will indeed take a reverse charge, but first need to be completely dead to be sucessful. Changing it back now may do more harm than good. If it's working leave it until tractor needs a new battery.



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Lee

08-28-2005 07:39:32




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Jim Isler, 08-27-2005 16:08:12  
I've never heard of a bat taking a reverse charge!
If it has it can't be a good thing. What polarity would you hook it up for a boost using a charger or another battery? I'd check it out and fix it right. Batteries can be dangerous if ploarity is not respected.



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Hugh MacKay

08-28-2005 03:17:31




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Jim Isler, 08-27-2005 16:08:12  
Jim: While I agree with John, he did omit one item, that being if someone put battery in backwards you are never exactly sure what else they may have done.

I bought a Farmall 140, when new a 6 volt positive ground. When I bought it previous owner had not been able to get it going in the 10 years he owned it. I understand several mechanices of questionable qualifications had worked on tractor so I have no way of knowing what tractors electrical system had been through. What I found on this 140 was battery in backwards, battery was toast, generator was toast, regulator was toast. I even had to replace ampmeter before tractor would run.

If your tractor is starting well, running well and charging now, there is a good chance nothing is damaged. My point being that if someone installed a battery backwards in any vehicle, your probably not sure what else he may have done. He probably is not sure himself.

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Allan in NE

08-28-2005 03:41:59




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Hugh MacKay, 08-28-2005 03:17:31  
Yep,

And, if it has been running for 5 years that way, chances are that the battery probably has taken a reverse charge and there is not a thing wrong with it.

Dunno,

Allan



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John T

08-28-2005 06:25:24




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Allan in NE, 08-28-2005 03:41:59  
A Generator can still work at either polarity so if it became polarized it could still charge, but the battery itslef has but one polarity which is a function of its plates and acid and a chemistry thing. The PROBLEM WOULD HAVE BEEN THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR. Many of the 2 wire cutout relays are labeled for BOTH Pos and Neg ground and can work either way but would have to have been reversed to work if the battery got swapped. Likewise, many Voltage Regulators are bi polar and work at either ground configuration.

A do agree if it works and charges one could leave it as is, but if shes NOT charging it needs to be fixed. I would still correct any coil polarity mis wiring and, of course, wire the ammeter corect so it reads right.

Yall have a good day, best wishes n God Bless

John T

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Allan in NE

08-28-2005 08:17:17




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to John T, 08-28-2005 06:25:24  
Comon' John,

That battery is an inert object, doesn't have an "absolute electrical polarity" and couldn't give a fig which way it is charged.

You really haven't ever seen a battery charged in reverse?

Allan



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Hugh MacKay

08-28-2005 04:40:10




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Allan in NE, 08-28-2005 03:41:59  
Allan: Good thought, if it's working well, don't fix it.



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pcy1066

08-28-2005 06:53:37




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Hugh MacKay, 08-28-2005 04:40:10  
if its working dont mess with it, if you change the cabkes the battery will have to go completely dead then charge reverse polarity, while the battery has juice and is trying to charge oppisite dammage can occure



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John T

08-27-2005 17:36:39




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 Re: Battery installed backwards in reply to Jim Isler, 08-27-2005 16:08:12  
Jim, depending on how "lucky" you are it may not be too bad, if it has a Voltage Regulator, theres a chance it could be messed up, and, likewise, if its only a 2 wire Cutout Relay, they dont work correct if wired in reverse polarity so it may never have closed by which the Generator could have ever charged the battery?? The Generator shouldnt be harmed, they will work at either polarity once polarized. If the battery is backwards from original, the ammeter would read bass ackwards.

If it were mine I would simply install the battery in correct,,,,, ,then re polarize the Generator,,,,, ,,,then give her a try n see what happens, see if it charges and ESPECIALLY see if when you shut her off (or even before you fire her up) the ammeter dont swing to high discharge and stay there and the Generator get hot!! IF SO (could happen) the cutout relay IS STUCK/BURNED CLOSED and needs replaced, thats so regardless if its a full fledged Voltage Regulator or a 2 wire Cutout Relay. They are SUPPOSED to stay open but only close after the generators voltage exceeds the batterys so it can charge it but then open otherwise (when tractors off) so it dont reverse discharge the battery through the generator.

Hook her up n polarize the Generator and give her a try, BUT keep a close watch that the Cutout Relay or the Voltage Regulators cutout relay isnt stuck closed, which would discharge the battery quickly. If when you hook her up theres a heavy current draw, the relay is likely the cause cuz its stuck closed. Theres still a decent chance it wasnt harmed, as it shouldnt have ever closed and gotten stuck in the first place if wired reverse polarity!!!!!

The coil will still fire in reverse but its not as efficient and may have run a tad warmer, but theres a good chance its okay.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer

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