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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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1954 super c electrical

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KC

08-24-2005 13:23:31




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Have a super c with 6 volt positive ground. The problem is when the wire from the switch is hooked to the negative side of the coil and the wire to the positive side of the coil is hooked to the distributor, it creates a dead short and draws the battery down to less than 1 volt. With this happening, it is impossible for the starter to work due to the low voltage. The wiring is done like the wiring diagram that is posted by Robert M for 6 volt positive ground system. Have put new points in, condensor, and installed a new coil. This still does not correct the problem. Eliminated the on/off switch and took a wire directly from the positive side of the battery to the coil and wire from negative side of the coil to the distributor(now negative ground) and it still goes to dead short (less than 1 volt). Reversed wires at coil and still no difference. Note: The voltage drop occurs when points are closed. When points are on high lobe of cam, the voltage is normal (6 volts). OHM meter lead put on bolt going into distributor and other lead put on stationary point bracket inside distributor shows a complete circuit when points are closed and circuit breaks when points are open (like it should). Pulled points and condensor out and held negative wire from coil to the plate inside the distributor and also have a dead short with a voltage reading of less than 1 on the battery by using a voltmeter. Any HELP would be greatly appreciated. THANKS !

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John T

08-24-2005 20:04:55




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 Re: 1954 super c electrical in reply to KC, 08-24-2005 13:23:31  
KC, Im not quite sure if Im understanding your question, so forgive me.

This is what you should measure:

1) If you place a voltmeter on the coils high supply side (side from switch, NOT to distributor) and turn the ignition switch on and if it and the wiring to it is good, THE METER SHOULD READ NEAR BATTERY VOLTAGE.

2) HOWEVER, if you place a voltmeter over on the coils other low (to distributor) terminal and ifffff fff the points are good and they are closed and all the wirings good and in place, THE VOLTAGE SHOULD READ NEAR ZERO since that point is connected to ground via a closed set of contact points (if all is good).

If you think somethings wrong cuz the low (to distributor) side of the coil reads near zero volts when a good and properly connected set of points is working THATS WRONG, it should read near zero volts there. However, when the points are open on high cam, then you would read near battery volts there, and if not its either that the coils low voltage primary winding (between its lil + and - terminals) is bad/open,,,,, or else theres a dead short at the points,,,,, ,,, or the condensors shorted,,,,, ,,,,or theres a short like where the stud passes thru the side of the distributor.

A coil ignition should draw around 4 amps and thats not enough to drag the battery voltage down assuming the battery is anywhere near good. A voltmeter on the battery shouldnt drop very much if you turn on both lights and ignition.

NOwwwww www that slow cranking may be caused by another problem, but even if the points are good and closed and the coil voltage is near zero (as it should be when points closed) on its low side, I dont see that as causing any cranking problem.

Often slow cranking is caused by weak batterys or poor connections like at the battery or ground or starter etc. OR YOU CAN HAVE A STARTER MECHANICALLY STUCK YOU KNOW!!!!! !!! Remove, clean n wire brush, n reattach each n every battery n ground n starter n switch cable and insure the batterys good (maybe have it load tested) or try a known good substitute battery n let me know what happens.

ALSO, I dont see any dead short using even up to a 12 gauge wire (yours is likely 14 or 16 gauge) being able to conduct sufficient amperage for a sufficient time to drag an entire battery down to 1 volt!!!!! !!!! Cuz the high curent draw would instantly burn the wire in two!!!!! !

It should take a largeeeee ee cable like a 4 or larger gauge to withstand sufficient current necessary to drag a 6 volt battery down to one volt and even that cable would get hot n there would be smoke n arcing ASSUMING THE BATTERY IS ANYWHERE NEAR GOOD AT ALL

Theres no way a small gauge wire could conduct enough current for a long enough time to drag a battery down that far that quick cuz a dead short wuld burn up n melt the wire suddenly.

You better have that battery load tested at a shop !!!!! !!!! You have a known good substitute battery you can try????? ?? Even when cranking an engine (assuming a good starter n good cables n connections) the battery voltage shouldnt drop much below 4 volts or so.

BE SURE N CHECK ALL CABLES N CONNECTIONS AS A BAD ONE CAN CAUSE HEAT N ARCING AND SLOWWWWW W CRANKING

If the starter or its armature were near a dead short and if the cables n connections were all good and permitted high current flow something like that would draw a batterys voltage wayyyyy yyyy down, but other then that I dont see any light gauge wire being responsibe for any such drastic voltage drop as the wire would simply melt open first.

So, did I take your question correct???

John T in Indiana, retired electrical engineer

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kc

08-26-2005 11:43:17




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 Re: 1954 super c electrical in reply to John T, 08-24-2005 20:04:55  
It turned out that the brand new battery would not hold a charge when under load. Exchanged it and now have tractor running. Thanks for your input.



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Janicholson

08-24-2005 14:30:02




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 Re: 1954 super c electrical in reply to KC, 08-24-2005 13:23:31  
Two things stand out clearly. The first is that a fully charged battery will smoke the wires to the coil in an instant if it is a dead short.

Charge the battery and make sure it will spin the starter/engine with the coil not connected. Just 10 seconds will be fine. (or have it checked with a meter at the battery store)

The coil could be shorted internally if it is, the coil is bad and cannot be repaired. Check it by seeing what its current draw is when placed in series with a 20 amp rated amp meter across a good 6v battery. It should draw no more than 2 to 3.5 amps. If it draws much more than this it is junk. If it draws full scale 20 amps it is shorted and do not leave it connected, it will burn up wires (and or your fingers)

A very dead battery will show 6v with no load, put even one headlight across it and it will go to one volt within 5 seconds.

I suspect the battery.

Good luck and be sure to let us know what happens. Knowing the solution is important to diagnosis by remote control.

JimN

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kc

08-26-2005 11:46:09




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 Re: 1954 super c electrical in reply to Janicholson, 08-24-2005 14:30:02  
It turned out that the brand new battery would not hold a charge when under load. Exchanged it and now have tractor running. Thanks for your input.



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