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GAS PRICES

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FRANK

08-12-2005 17:51:19




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I RETIRED A COUPLES OF YEARS AGO AND STARTED FOOLING WITH OLD TRACTORS. GOING TO THE SHOWS AND ENJOYING MEETING OTHER TRACTOR LOVERS, HOWEVER, THIS GAS PRICING HAS ABOUT SHUT ME DOWN FROM GOING. JUST SO MUCH FUN THE OLD PENSION WILL ALLOW FOR. WHEN IS THIS GAS THING GOING TO END????? ??




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Kurow

08-14-2005 14:47:07




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to FRANK, 08-12-2005 17:51:19  
You thought that was expensive. Down here in New Zealand Petrol is $1.45 /litre. That is $5.49/gal. Then converted at todays exchange rate makes is about $3.84USD/gallon.



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sammy the RED

08-12-2005 23:46:34




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to FRANK, 08-12-2005 17:51:19  
I just drove past two Mejier Stores in the same town. One had gas for $2.44 a gallon, the other one was at $2.58..... .Why the price differance ???

Rip off time !



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FRANK

08-13-2005 13:18:26




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to sammy the RED, 08-12-2005 23:46:34  

IT HAS BEEN MOST INTERESTING READING ALL OF THESE COMMENTS ABOUT THE PRICE OF GASOLINE. I HAVE HEARD MENTIONED SEVERAL TIMES THAT IF WE WOULD ALL, AND I MEAN, ALL, QUIT BUYING GAS, DON,T GO TO WORK, SCHOOL, THE STORE, OR ANYWHERE. I BELIEVE YOU WOULD SEE GAS PRICES DROP DRASTICALLY, AND IT WOULDN,T TAKE LONG



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CNKS

08-12-2005 19:54:39




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to FRANK, 08-12-2005 17:51:19  
Adjusted for inflation, the "gas crisis" in the early 80's would make the price of a barrel of oil $90 today, as opposed to the current price of $65-$66. -- it might make it. There is no gasoline shortage, price is set by the traders on the open market, who have bowel movements every time a refinery has to make a routine repair.



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F-Dean

08-13-2005 06:25:05




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to CNKS, 08-12-2005 19:54:39  
Could you explain your calculations? I didn't think we had had that much inflation since 1980.



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CNKS

08-13-2005 08:49:51




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to F-Dean, 08-13-2005 06:25:05  
The $90 figure has been in the newspaper (including the Wall Street Journal) several times. Any one can come up with any figure, depending on what the assumptions are. Assume 4% inflation since 1980. Take a hand calculator, enter 1.04 x 1.00/gal, hit the equal key 25 times, you get $2.66 a gallon. 3% inflation gives $2.09 a gallon. If I remember right I believe gasoline peaked at about $1.30 around 1980. Using that figure and 3% inflation the current price would be $2.72. I don't like the price anymore than you do but gas has been cheap a LONG time. Doesn't make it any less painful. And oil and gas prices don't have much relation to inflation anyway. Very difficult to get the $90 per barrel price or even the $66 per gallon price, using the nominal inflation rate. Let's say the price per barrel was $15 in 1985, after all the hoopla settled down (Of course I don't have the actual figures). To get from $15 to $66 requires an "inflation" rate of 7-8%.

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F-Dean

08-13-2005 15:20:28




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to CNKS, 08-13-2005 08:49:51  
Thanks! That is the best expaination I have seen.
However, the cost of oil/gas/energy does influence inflation. Companies will soon have to begin passing on the cost of high fuel costs (Much is delivered by truck) by raising their prices. Well, back to tractors!!!



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CNKS

08-13-2005 17:48:35




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to F-Dean, 08-13-2005 15:20:28  
I imagine most of the truck freight companies and others have a fuel surcharge. I noticed that UPS had one when I sent a package the other day. That type of operation will just pass the charge along. As you say the retailers will have to raise their prices sooner or later.



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Pharmall

08-12-2005 19:54:34




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 Fill up this weekend... in reply to FRANK, 08-12-2005 17:51:19  
Fill up your tank this weekend if you get the chance. Gasoline futures prices were up sharply today on the NY Mercantile Exchange. Traders are looking at several recent refinery shutdowns in Texas and Illinois. I expect to see another 15 or 20 cents at the pump by the end of next week.



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Gene Kidd

08-12-2005 18:44:05




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to FRANK, 08-12-2005 17:51:19  
Sorry Frank but I don't think this gas thing is ever going to end.

I'm heading out for MA. in the morning to pick up a MM horse drawn hay mower I won on e-bay back when gas was $2.16 a gal. here in Wisconsin. (That was in April.)It just hit $2.59 today. It was at $2.49 just 3 days ago!!!!



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Rudi

08-12-2005 18:43:17




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to FRANK, 08-12-2005 17:51:19  
Frank:

I was living in Los Angeles during the late 70's amid the artificial gas shortages that saw tankers dumping gas in the Mojave.. wow $0.70 and change a gallon and everybody was up in arms.

I waited for my gas on odd days - up at 3am to be in a gas line at 4am so I could get to work by 7am. Been there done that...

Now, I am back in Canada, have been for 25 years.. got used to the Government taking us off of the Gold Standard - letting the dollar seek its own market value against the US buck. Hey in 1977 I was getting $1.25 Canadian for every US dollar, now I am getting what -- $0.82 US...

Right now I am paying $1.07/litre Canadian for gas. There is 3.84 litres to a US gallon. That equates to oh lets see $4.1088 or $4.11/US gallon in Canadian funds or $3.37 roughly per gallon US.

Oh, and I am also on a pension.. very fixed and I still have 4 girls at home and 3 of them are in university. I have no health insurance so I have to pay for my prescriptions, glasses and dental just like y'all do stateside. The only thing I don't have to worry about is hospital bills. Thank God for that otherwise, after this past year I would be in major pooh....

I still get along. I get to play with my tractors, and still get to visit a lot of places. Granted I cannot afford to go to too many shows say 1,000 miles away, especially if I was to tow my tractors.. but we still get to enjoy all the stuff close to home.

I don't mean to rain on anyones parade, but you know - gas is cheaper today than it was 30 years ago. If you compare the ratio of what it took out of your paycheck to fill up the old bazoo back when, and what it costs now, it is quite a bit cheaper. It just seems more expensive cause the numbers are higher.

If I might make a suggestion.

Take it in stride. It is no big deal. Certainly nothing we as citizens can do. The only thing we can do is stay a little closer to home, visit with our tractor buddies near us, and hopefully, the big gas companies will find out that simple truth that the more you charge the less volume you get. The less volume, the less profit...

Pricies will drop.

Also, you got to wonder about these speculators --they are the ones that are driving the crude prices through the roof. Some fancy pants who has no spine, sees a hurricane and figures it will off production by so much... so he bids higher for crude - and like lemmings the rest follow. Suddenly, no hurricane... just a twit with a bad case of jitters. Same thing with the mid-east. There has not been a drop in output in many years, in fact there is almost a glut... prices should still be around $30.00US a barrel... but these fancy pants with no nerves are controlling the prices...

If they grew up a bit, got some backbone, we would all be better off.

Sorry for the soapbox, but sometimes I get a little antsy about this subject.

Everybody in the US is complaining about paying $2.50 gallon. Hey, it is still the cheapest fuel in the Industrialized world.

Europe is paying even more per litre than we in Canada are.

I just take everything one day at a time now.. and I find I get to enjoy my tractors and everything else a whole bunch more.

Keep smilin.. :-)

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Yugrotcart

08-12-2005 18:32:43




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to FRANK, 08-12-2005 17:51:19  
I drive a gasoline tanker. Soon i will need an armed guard with me to keep away highjackers!!!!!



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Bob22

08-12-2005 18:17:05




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to FRANK, 08-12-2005 17:51:19  
Price for regular unleaded today in PA is $2.47/gal. I drive 70 miles round trip to work each day and have no choice. I drive a small truck and have no choice. The economy will be crippled. We already have lost most manufacturing jobs around here.



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Allan in NE

08-12-2005 17:54:04




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to FRANK, 08-12-2005 17:51:19  
Hi Frank,

Sometimes I wonder if people forget the long gas lines of the seventies.

When we quit buying their fuel, it is amazing how fast that price drops.

Allan



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P Backus

08-12-2005 18:29:30




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to Allan in NE, 08-12-2005 17:54:04  
Hi Allan,
I operate essentially 3 businesses and I realize that all three are heavily dependent on fuel. So the fuel cost does take a big bite out of the profits. It is kind of scary. You are right: our appetites for fuel are always increasing, even in the face of high prices. I sometimes think of Americans unwillingness to be more efficient. Always bigger vehicles (Humvees, Navigators, Escalades, etc.). I had a 1970 half ton that got 13mpg. A young guy i know has a 2002 half ton that gets 10mpg. We don"t use trains anymore, not convenient enough. When I was a kid, I rode my bike a lot. Now everything that the neighbor kids do burns gas- 4-wheelers, minibikes, jet skis, snowmobiles, etc.
None of this is really wrong, but it does make you think.
Paul

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Pharmall

08-12-2005 20:08:28




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to P Backus, 08-12-2005 18:29:30  
Yes. Read an article today that said big SUV's are flying off the car lots with the "employee pricing" discounts. Not sure what $/
gal price would cause folks to change habits. Back in the late 70's people dumped the big cars pretty fast, 55 speed limit, nationwide right turn on red, conservative driving habits, carpools, etc. Don't see any of that yet.

Curious, I'm not a real farmer (just play one on TV). Have you guys seen any big jumps in the price of fertilizer or seed? They are both pretty energy-intensive manufacturing operations and I would expect that higher energy costs would be more of a $/
acre impact than the cost of fuel...

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El Toro

08-13-2005 04:50:38




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to Pharmall, 08-12-2005 20:08:28  
I haven't seen you posting on here lately. I thought maybe those big fish grabbed you. Hal



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Pharmall

08-13-2005 08:11:52




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 Fishies in reply to El Toro, 08-13-2005 04:50:38  
third party image

Spent a week at Lake Winnepasauke and didn't catch a thing. You could see big bass and trout 20' down just hanging out but they weren't interested. Went snorkeling and they would follow you around. If you turned over rocks they would eat the crayfish out of your hand but I'll be darned if we could get one on a hook. We had a good time anyway though - cabin 3 feet from the lake and lots of good food.

Had to come back to RI to catch this one.

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P Backus

08-12-2005 20:29:43




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to Pharmall, 08-12-2005 20:08:28  
Pharmall, you ain"t a-kidding. Nitrogen prices especially are tied to natural gas prices, which in turn, are tied to everything else, energy wise. All fertilizer prices have gone up a lot, but most of a farmer"s fertilizers are bought for the year, so the recent spikes don"t affect our fertilizer bill until next spring. Seed prices seem to rise more from technology fees and the fancier traits that everyone wants now in their seed. Tires on the other hand- wooo! Those big tires you see on the modern equipment have really gone up. Some can be over $1000 each.
Besides my own crops, I do custom work, which is all fuel, tires and parts, no fertilizer.
Paul

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Hugh MacKay

08-12-2005 19:16:02




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to P Backus, 08-12-2005 18:29:30  
Paul: You are quite correct, until we change our habits, they are going to sock it to us. I crossed the Canada-US border today around noon at Sarnia-Port Huron. I do this almost weekly. I've never seen such lineups both ways of cars, motor homes, etc. It was the same at Niagra Falls on the July 1st to 4th weekend.

I have some thought on this whole matter, just thinking what would happen if trucks were not allowed to cross more than one state or provincial border, we put a ban on all motor sports, tax all air travel out of business. I'm thinking we must use water and rail transportation a whole lot more. A gallon of fuel hauls a lot more product by rail and water. But then one has to consider what all this would do to the economy. Would be a lot of folks without income all of a sudden. Then remember it was the greed of the railroads that put those trucks on the road in the first place. If we imposed the one boundary crossing for trucks, just think the retail industry would actually have to hire smart people in their purchasing depts.

I was talking with a trucker the other night in Leamington ON, He was loading with tomatoes for British Columbia. Asked him what his last load was. His reply, "BC tomatoes to Toronto." This is so typical, seems like a product is not usable unless it's trucked 1,000 miles. Right now, Mexican broccoli is actually less money in Chicago, Detroit or Toronto than local broccoli. I guess North Americans have priced themselves out of existance.

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P Backus

08-12-2005 20:12:33




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to Hugh MacKay, 08-12-2005 19:16:02  
Hi Hugh-it"s true. I also haul pianos, sometimes out of state. People will sometimes say "don"t they have pianos in (fill in the name of a far away place)? Well, sure, but rationality doesn"t always have much to do with it. Like the tomatoes criss-crossing the continent.
I realize that this is over simplified, but couldn"t those losing jobs in air and over road transportation get jobs in rail and shipping if we starting moving goods that way again?
Paul

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Hugh MacKay

08-12-2005 21:08:42




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to P Backus, 08-12-2005 20:12:33  
Paul: Two major concerns I have with this liberal use of gas and oil. It is not an endless supply, and will run out someday. Secondly, man has reduced the oxygen content of the earths atmosphere from 40% at the beginning of the industrial revolution to now below 20% in 2005. The public cry immissions, man has adapted very well to harmful substances. I wonder if he will adapt as well to little or no oxygen. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the stumbling block in space. Man has the technology to get there, he just can't survive once there, without his own oxygen supply.

I think we best wake up and smell the roses. Yes we have old farts that smoked all their lives running around with these inhalers so they can breath. They are told it is their bad habit. What about the kids under 12 never smoked in their lives. School teachers will tell you a large percentage kids have the inhalers. When it comes to sucking in oxygen, man is no match for a 500 hp internal combustion engine.

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P Backus

08-12-2005 21:28:35




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to Hugh MacKay, 08-12-2005 21:08:42  
Hugh, again I agree on all counts.

What do you think about the statement that there have been people who have developed alternative fuel sources or much more efficient ways to use current energy, but as soon as the big oil companies get wind of it, they buy all the rights to the guy"s idea for a gazillion dollars and then destroy all trace of the idea just so they can keep selling lots of oil? It just sounds like another conspiracy theory to me, but maybe I"m just naive.
Paul

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Hugh MacKay

08-13-2005 02:47:40




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to P Backus, 08-12-2005 21:28:35  
Paul: 50 years ago there was a gentleman in our area, who suddenly became quite prosporus. How accutate this is I don't know, but it was reported he developed a carburator that would give 50 mpg (CAN gallon) in his full size Dodge sedan. My understanding is corperate America bought his patent.

They have sure never put it on the market. I learned to drive and got my first drivers licence with my dad's 57 Chevy sedan, 25 mpg. Today almost 50 years later I drive a Buick Lesabre, not a whole lot of difference in size and still get 25 mpg. Gee progress has been great. The Chevy seated 6 adults quite comfortably, the Buick doesn't. You can talk with countless people who have experienced much the same on fuel milage.

I once spoke with a rail locomotive operator, asked him about photos you see of trains coming from western Canada with 5 locomotives up front. I said you never see that in the east. His responce,"you can take 3 diesels off at Thunder Bay, as going from there to Halifax, at any given time half the train is on down grade. In fact there are portion of that run a VW beetle would pull the train, just wouldn't have the power to operate the compressor for braking." That same freight being hauled on trucks can not take advantage of the rolling hills.

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El Toro

08-13-2005 08:31:32




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to Hugh MacKay, 08-13-2005 02:47:40  
I have heard of those carburetors that were designed to give such great gas mileage. I read an article where a new car buyer was getting such great milege he went back to the dealer and they told him that was the wrong carburetor. They replaced the carburetor.

The big oil companies have kept any carburetor
off the market that would give good mileage by buying up the rights. Trains will be used to haul freight extensively if the price of oil continue's to rise and becomes scarce. Hal

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Rich Griffin

08-12-2005 18:10:18




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to Allan in NE, 08-12-2005 17:54:04  
I heard on the radio today that the price will keep going up as long as our driveing habits stay the same.



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R-cubed

08-12-2005 20:03:49




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to Rich Griffin, 08-12-2005 18:10:18  
Gas was $.30 cents in the 50"s when I started to drive an I was making $.50 cents an hour. Yes it"s cheaper now with inflation taken into account. But people that live 40 miles from work are the real problem! When I got a job in 1960 I moved to within 3 miles of work. Why people can"t figure that out I"ll never understand. I didn"t even like to drive THAT FAR! Heavy traffic for an hour ever morning and again at night will get to you after a while.

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Jason Simmerman

08-12-2005 22:39:01




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to R-cubed, 08-12-2005 20:03:49  
Well, I'll elaborate on that some. We as a country are begining to be overcrowded by self centered people. It's not an immediate problem, but slowly and surely it's happening. On that same account many people still want a "place of their own". Because of this property close to the cities are now so expensive that unless you are making a 6 digit sallary you can't afford it. I live near Washington DC and I have a 60 mile commute everyday. I bought a house with 3/4 of an acre on it and a 2100 square foot house which is dated inside but liveable, (yes I wanted my little piece of the pie too, but this is what I could afford so I had to move further out). What do you think I paid for this place a year and a half ago? $240,000 and that was cheap in this area. My place has two baths 4 bedrooms. A place just down the street from me which doesn't have a garage is only 3 bedrooms, 1 bath and is dated about the same inside as mine with only 1/2 an acre. What do you think that sold for? Almost $370,000!!! My place is probiably worth close to $400,000 right now. Is my place worth that? Not to me if I was the buyer now. But we all forget that something is worth what people are willing to pay for it. A good example is on this board. I have heard numerous times about people complaining about somebody selling a tractor and is insulted by what somebody offers them for it. On that same note this same person has the same tractor for sale 2 months later. Why??? Person isn't approachable, maybe, but most likely they are asking way too much for it. I can ask a million dollars for a rock I am selling, but that doesn't mean I am going to get it. In that case I have to lower my price in order to sell it. But if subject A see's the rock and says hey I want that rock and subject B sees the rock and says the same thing then the next thing I would do with the next rock I'm selling is ask 1.2 million because they obviously wanted my rocks. And I will keep doing that because I can, and any businessman will do this. The oil companies are no different than this and we will continue to pay higher and higher the more and more we allow them to charge higher. Maybe the cost is justified maybe it isn't, I'm not informed enough to make an intelligent statement about that. What I do know is people need to rethink their day to day decisions, to include businesses. You have to ask yourself do I need that item to be shipped overnight? Because that costs alot of fuel to send all those aircraft up for shipping. Why do I need to make a zillion trips to and from different stores to save pennies when the gas you consume not only affects you but also contributes to the usage pool that we all are a part of? This is my other gripe. Yeah gas might be 3 cents a gallon cheaper at the Sheetz downtown then it is at Joe's garage/service station, but I know I feel alittle pride in myself when I fill there knowing I'm helping another hardworking American support his family, whereas you are throwing money into large pool where employees have no benefits, work holidays, and have a pretty steady turnover ratio, and a good portion of that money is going to the corporation. Put it in a context like that and think about it some. We are our worst enemy. We worry about money to the point where it consumes us and we take the course which benefits us in the short course without forward thinking about the rest of the people out there. I miss the days of when you could leave your house unlocked and know everything would be there when you got back. I miss leaving the keys in the truck knowing it will be in the driveway when you wakeup. I miss having the right and moral responsibility to use deadly force to defend your family from harm from others without question, (now you hear alot from the bleeding hearts out there supporting the crooks). I have a few thoughts about the population issues.

1. Our medical technology is one of our crowning acceivements, it is also our downfalls
example the ability to treat cancer the way they do now. 30 years ago cancer was fatal, now not so much so. On that same note though, this is also weakening our gene pool. Example If you drink about 6 beers and decide to go outside and start trimming a tree with a chainsaw, you are fully entitled to be the benefactor of your stupidity. If you cut your arm off you deserve to lose it, not have it reattached. I don't mean to be offense or anything, but it serves as a walking lesson to everybody else out there. IE a public hanging once in awhile is not a bad thing. We as a society are lossing our common sense and it's scarey sometimes.

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P Backus

08-13-2005 06:00:44




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to Jason Simmerman, 08-12-2005 22:39:01  
Not only that, but now we sue the chainsaw company and the beer company!
I agree. How can we get people to stop thinking only about themselves? Ever drive down the road and have someone pass you only to get on the brakes to turn left, making you wait for him? Was that courteous or self centered?
Paul



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kfox

08-13-2005 09:01:56




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to P Backus, 08-13-2005 06:00:44  
One of the things that concerns me, along with all of the above mention problems, is the amount of lawns being mowed in thearea where I live. Within 5 miles of my house, I can see several 20 acer yards being mowed as short as a golf course. Some are ever larger...much larger. I'll bet that the amount of ground being mowed in the whole county would be mind boggleing. To top it off, not one head of cattle, or one goat is being raised on this ground. Not one stalk of corn, or one bean plant. I wonder how much longer we can keep this up. I've often thought some college kid should do a study on this for his masters degree.

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P Backus

08-13-2005 10:43:56




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 Re: GAS PRICES in reply to kfox, 08-13-2005 09:01:56  
I"v e always heard that the most expensive crop that we grow is a lawn.
Also, the only type of livestock that is increasing in numbers are horses.
Paul



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