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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Switching from non-detergent engine oils

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Kiernan3

08-10-2005 04:10:35




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Looking for input on swtiching from non-detergent to more modern engine oils - even a synthetic oil. Would be using in a 1941 Farmall H

Thanks,

Bob





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Don L C

08-10-2005 18:22:32




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
Back in about 1975 I bought a Farmall 400 to play with.....the farm was rented out.....I cleaned it up and put a great paint job on it...drained and flushed all the fluids...went from non-detg. oil to a detg. oil a short time later the plugs were oil fouled and missing badly ...tried hotter plugs,still had oil on plugs.....I wound up putting short pieces of clear plastic tubing between the plug and the wire....made the spark hotter.....overhaul fixed the problem....I feel sure changing to detg. oil was the problem....our local IHC dealer said the change was the problem....I can't say it wasn't.....

Don S.W. Ohio

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Andy Martin

08-11-2005 05:11:22




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Don L C, 08-10-2005 18:22:32  
Did you run it much before the oil change to know whether it was an oil burner or not?



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Ludwig

08-10-2005 09:37:19




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
You've gotten some good advice. I'm in the process of changing my Super M from non-detergent. Last time I changed the oil I used up the last of the non-detergent oil we had on the farm (my great uncle had bought a bunch one time) but I was a couple quarts short so I put in a couple quarts of detergent oil. Next change will be all detergent but I've already bought an oil pan gasket so I can drop the pan and scrape it clean. Then I'll run that as a short duration change. The next will be a slightly longer duration and I'll use a more expensive oil. That first change will be the cheapest stuff I can find since it won't be in there long.
Finally after the third change I'll be fully comfortable.

I agree that for a lightly worked machine synthetic doesn't make much sense especially on a machine like mine where I only change the oil once a year...

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Red Dave

08-10-2005 09:29:55




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
I've made the switch. No problems.

Do like Bob M says below and I think you will be OK.



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Bob M

08-10-2005 06:05:22




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
Bob - My experience with Farmall and Minnie Mo tractors (also with Chrysler and Continental industrial engines) run on non-detergent oils is virtually ALL the sludge accumulates in the pan, under the rocker box and on the oil pump pickup screen. The rest of the engine internals stay remarkably clean.

My advice: Drop the pan and thoroughly clean it and the oil pickup strainer. Also remove the rocker box and clean the rocker assemblies, top deck of the head and inside the box.

Put it all back together and install a fresh filter and detergent oil. Run the tractor a few hours, then change the oil and filter once and you should be good to go.

Tip: Sludge will accumulate rapidly even with good detergent oil if the engine is allowed to run cold. Make sure you have a working thermostat in the cooling system!

Tip 2: Synthetic oils offer no advantage to old tractors which operate at low stress (low RPM and cool) relative to modern, high performance auto engines. About all synthetics do is improve the refiner’s bottom line while simultaneously depleting your bank account!

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Andy Martin

08-10-2005 06:04:54




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
I always switch a new tractor to non-detergent oil and never have a problem.

Detergent means the oil keeps the carbon particles and other contaminants suspended for a longer period of time than non-detergent.

It will not clean or loosen sludge in your engine. Eventually there will be some improvement in sludge, maybe, but lots of engines which have had detergent oil since new have lots of sludge.

Synthetic oil is really a waste of money, unless you work the tractor hard daily, you need to change the oil to get rid of acid and water. the engine was designed to perform well on oils which were quite inferior to modern oil.

Non-detergent oil in race cars makes a lot of sense since operating hours between changes and even between overhauls is quite low.

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RustyFarmall

08-10-2005 05:59:02




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
Have you owned this tractor for quite some time? Do you know that it has non-detergent oil in it now? The vast majority of these old tractors have been running on detergent motor oil for many, many years.



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Robert Cornell

08-10-2005 05:52:17




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
If you switch to non detergent, I would suggest getting on a much shorter oil change rotation. The purpose of the detergent in the oil is to keep particles in suspension. This works great with a motor that has a positive pressure filter lubrication system as the suspended particles are filtered out of the oil. Older tractors have bypass filtration where only some of the oil is filtered. As noted in other replies, the non detergent oil allowed the sludge to settle out of the oil into the bottom of the pan. Remove the pan, clean well to remove sludge. Run the engine with some cheap detergent oil and one quart of fuel oil for a short time and drain. Use your detergent oil, but definitely decrease the amount of time between changes.

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EricB

08-10-2005 05:02:56




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
Kiernan:
DO NOT DO IT!
Once you start using non-detergent it is very hard to turn back.There will be sludge that gets loosened up. The problem is not that it gets into your pan; the problem is it clogs all the lube ports in your bearings and inside the engine block. Think of it like colesterol in your veins. If it stays stuck to the artery wall its no problem. If it comes loose all hell breaks loose. (depending on the life you lead) I used to race cars and we always used non-detergent. I believe that it provides better lubrication in the long run.

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Ludwig

08-10-2005 09:30:52




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to EricB, 08-10-2005 05:02:56  
Thats bunk, oils are so much better these days anybody using non-detergent oil because it "lubricates better" doesn't know any of the science of oil technology and is just holding onto stuff they thought they knew one day years ago.
Ask the pro racing teams what oil they use and its gonna be synthetic because it doesn't breakdown under extreme conditions.



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Randy in NE

08-10-2005 04:39:49




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
The only problem that you will run into is the amount of old sludge that may be loosened up. You may want to consider removing the oil pan and cleaning it out first. Then you may want to change the oil (and filter) a little more frequently the first couple of times as the sludge is loosened up from the upper reaches of the motor.



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dhermesc

08-10-2005 05:46:56




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Randy in NE, 08-10-2005 04:39:49  
I agree with Randy, drop the pan and pull the valve cover and clean out the deposits first. Use it as an opportunity to adjust your valve lash, inspect the crank and clean the oil pump pickup screen.



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Allan in NE

08-10-2005 04:39:08




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
Hey Bob,

I agree with Cowman.

That old tractor doesn't care what ya put in it. You could run melted whale blubber and the thing would operate just fine. :>)

Allan



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billde

08-10-2005 04:36:45




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
By all means switch over to detergent oils, they will keep your engine much cleaner. The "dirt" will stay suspended in detergent oil rather than settle out in your oil pan and deposit on engine parts. I use 10w40 in all of my IH tractors. I would suggest a para-synthetic or a blend of 25% synthetic because of cost. It is hard to get the full benefits of synthetic because of the dirty conditions a tractor is used under.

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Nebraska Cowman

08-10-2005 04:23:30




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 Re: Switching from non-detergent engine oils in reply to Kiernan3, 08-10-2005 04:10:35  
Most old tractors have been running detergent oil for years.



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