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560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB

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JREX

07-24-2005 10:46:04




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I have searched the site but have not found a solution. 1963-gas 560. We use this on our farm to mow headlands,keep fields down, snow blowing, or whatever we need some extra power. The machine has been running great. Used it one evening mowed about 5 acres, next day would not start. Engine will turn over fine, but it will not fire.
We have checked and changed points, plugs, condensor, coil, distributor cap, rotor. We are getting weak spark at the plug. Tried with another battery. We are getting popping at the carb when using starter fluid. Still will not fire. We are thinking maybe timing. Any ideas?
Thanks

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El Toro

07-24-2005 17:36:14




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 07-24-2005 10:46:04  
If that tractor uses a ballast resistor to drop
the voltage in the ignition circuit, it could be
defective. I always thought the engine would start though, while the engine was being cranked
when these resistors were defective. Hal



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JREX

07-25-2005 02:01:10




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to El Toro, 07-24-2005 17:36:14  
Thanks for the ideas. I will try them ut and see. Hal, I also thought the engine would start even with out a resistor. John



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El Toro

07-25-2005 05:47:02




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 07-25-2005 02:01:10  
On item No5, the coil primary (battery voltage)wire to the points must be attached to the coil
+ terminal if your battery is + grounded. Hal



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El Toro

07-25-2005 03:56:52




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 07-25-2005 02:01:10  
I think the engine will start with a bad resistor,
but it quits once you release the starter switch.
These were used on speed boats too, they used a lot of auto engines in boats and those resistors cause starting problems.

I think you need to check your timing to make sure
that it is ok. You said you have a weak spark at the plugs, here's a procedure for checking
your ignition system,

1. Check for battery voltage at the coil. Use a test lite or volt meter.
2. Check for battery voltage at the points. Use a test lite or volt meter.
3. Remove distributor cap, rotor & points cover;
remove the coil wire from the distr cap & put within 1/4" of a good ground.
4. With points closed & ignition switch on, snap the points open a few times and watch for spark
at the coil wire end. Should be a hot spark.
5. If no spark is present: you may have dirty points, a bad condenser or a bad coil. Coil primary wire must be attached to - post on coil if battery is - grounded. If battery is + grounded then the primary coil wire must be attached to the + post on the coil. Hal
Make sure those points are set at .020" and run some 320 emery cloth through the points when closed. May have a coating on them.

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El Toro

07-25-2005 05:40:37




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to El Toro, 07-25-2005 03:56:52  
On item No5, the coil primary is the battery voltage to the points that's attached to the coil.
Hal



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El Toro

07-24-2005 16:00:58




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 07-24-2005 10:46:04  
You need to remove No1 plug and hold your thumb over the plug hole while someone hand cranks the
engine over until you feel compression against
your thumb. Slowly crank until your timing marks are aligned with one another, then remove distr. cap and see where rotor is pointing, should be at No1 plug wire in the cap. If off, something may have thrown the ignition out of time. Stipped a gear or the timing gear may have slightly sheared the woodruff key on the camshaft causing the ignition to be out of time.

Hook a timing light to No1 plug and see where your timing mark is when cranking the engine with the starter with the ignition switch on. It may have enough fire to trigger the light. Coat the timing mark with some chalk so its easily visible.

Hal

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JiminIA

07-24-2005 12:52:55




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 07-24-2005 10:46:04  
Ign coil? Timing? Points Gap?Check the resistor for the coil if it still has one. Hold a pair of pliers across the two terminals of the resistor with it running and see if it clears up. I fussed with on for hours before i found that. Good luck.. Jim



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P Backus

07-24-2005 11:15:05




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 07-24-2005 10:46:04  
You could have lost a tooth or two on the timing gear which would throw off valve timing as well as distributor. Sometimes they fail like that when you go to start it. Check distributor timing and check to see that the rotor is pointing directly at the no. 1 cap terminal when no.1 is at TDC on compression stroke. If they aren"t, check into it further. Check plug wire routing for correct firing order. Check for a grounded primary ignition wire.
Paul

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JREX

07-24-2005 13:57:07




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to P Backus, 07-24-2005 11:15:05  
We have replaced all the electricial,,points, rotor, etc. Plug wires good. P BACKUS- The firing order is correct, using the 13-36-24. We will try the TDC on #1. Curious about checking the timing. I have the I&T shop manual NO IH-25. We did not see a timing mark on the outside but it appears the timing marks are internal. Looks like we need to pull the timing gear cover to check? The missing tooth on the gear. Only way to correct would be replace the gear?. Primary ignition wire? Location? We do not have a wiring diagram.
Thanks

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P Backus

07-25-2005 08:44:18




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 07-24-2005 13:57:07  
Have you gotten it figured out yet? It looks like Hal has got you covered. Yes the primary ignition wire is the 12v wire coming from the ignition switch to the coil. Sometimes they can get a bare spot somewhere and will ground out intertmittently. The timng gear would require some disassembly to see it well, but I would only start looking there if the distributor rotor timing or the spark timing is way off "mysteriously". If it"s only off a couple of degrees, then the timing gear is ok. If it is the gear, you have to take the front cover off to pull the gear off and replace it. I"m not sure where the timing mark is on this motor. I would check the front pully first and then the flywheel. There may be a hole in the bell housing to see the mark.
Paul

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JREX

07-28-2005 02:01:27




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to P Backus, 07-25-2005 08:44:18  
We have worked thru all the electrical and fuel. Going after the timing one evening this week. Thanks for all the help.



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JREX

07-25-2005 15:12:24




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to P Backus, 07-25-2005 08:44:18  
Thanks all, weather claering up for tomorrow, I will check and let all know what happened, John



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P Backus

08-02-2005 05:13:07




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 07-25-2005 15:12:24  
JREX have you found the problem yet? Any more symptoms?
Paul



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JREX

08-07-2005 05:25:44




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to P Backus, 08-02-2005 05:13:07  
Paul and all,
found the problem. We made sure #1 cylinder was at TDC and the rotor was in the wrong place. We bumped the engine till all was in the right place, shecked the timing,,works great. Thanks for all you help.
John



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P Backus

08-07-2005 14:05:53




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 08-07-2005 05:25:44  
JREX, thanks for letting us know what you"ve found. I Wonder what made it change in the first place. If it does it again you"ll have to investigate further to find the reason for the rotor getting "off" of the correct time.
Good luck! Those motors really do run nice when all is well, don"t they?
Paul



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JREX

08-02-2005 16:28:10




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to P Backus, 08-02-2005 05:13:07  
Paul, We have checked most everything, We are getting spark at the plugs. A buddy is going to come over with his timing light and we will go from there. Funny part is the plugs are not getting fuel. I had took the carb apart and clean, but there is a screen where the fuel enters and may have to replace. I will keep ya updated
John



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jossette

07-24-2005 10:48:31




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 Re: 560 GAS WEAK SPARK POPPING AT CARB in reply to JREX, 07-24-2005 10:46:04  
cap and rotor



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