Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

what head work is needed when ringing M???

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
scruffyia

06-30-2005 09:04:44




Report to Moderator

Now that you guys got me talked into putting rings in my M instead of having it done (the thread "what would you do with my 47 M") what head work is necessary when putting rings in an M?

Can I just pull the head/oil pan off, remove rods/pistons, hone the cylinders, put new rings in the pistons, and putting it all back together with new gaskets? Or do I have to have the head plained?

And if the head doesn't need to be plained is there any reason to pull the intake/exhaust manifolds? I'm trying to avoid that if possible, broken bolts from removing manifolds and me haven't gotten along well in the past....

Thanks,
Mark

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
scruffyia

07-01-2005 06:46:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: what head work is needed when ringing M??? in reply to scruffyia, 06-30-2005 09:04:44  
Thanks for the input. Since the old M is running very very well I think I'll just ring it and inspect it really well. If it looks like the head needs more work I'll send it off, but at this time all I want is for it to stop smoking. It runs 60-70lbs of oil pressure with 20w50 oil so the rods are nice and tight and the old M breaks a rated 50hp PTO "overrun" clutch every year or two brush hogging (6ft 3pt mower) by splitting out the cases and once twisting the splined shaft (I think the twisted shaft one was defective, too soft...). So she's making alot of power, she just smokes a little doing it.

So I think I'm content with fresh rings, inspecting the head, and when power drops off, oil pressure drops off, etc, I'll have a full overhaul done, top and bottom.

And at around 75 - 100 hours a year, that might be a long time...

thanks,
Mark

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
buckva

06-30-2005 17:17:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: what head work is needed when ringing M??? in reply to scruffyia, 06-30-2005 09:04:44  

Lets say that all looks well with the head and valves. Just attempt to move the valve stems from side to side in the valve guide. If they feel sloppy/loose then valve work is indicated. Say they feel tight then they are probably fine. Now place the head with the valve heads up and as level a possible. Pour motor oil around the valve heads and let sit overnight. Next day observe the area of the valve stem to see if ay oil came thru. If oil is showing on the stem area then some valve to seat work is in order. If no oil came thru then you are good to go. This said I would suggest that you take this oppertunity to replace the seals and lap in the valve/valve seat area. Now what I am about to say is going to get a lot of people sorta out of shape but believe me it is happening all over the world. Once you have removed your rings from the pistons and have everthing cleaned up take one of the old compression rings and push it thru the cylinder with the top of a piston. Move it about 1/2 inch at a time and look at the end gap in the ring. This will tell you if the cylinder is worn more in one place. If it is a big difference then you need cylinder work. If not warn then move on to ring selection. If the cleaned up piston feels good in a prepared cylinder then I suggest getting a .0010 over size ring set and hand filing the ring ends to fit.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
captaink

07-01-2005 07:48:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: what head work is needed when ringing M??? in reply to buckva, 06-30-2005 17:17:49  
If you do this "custom fitting" of the rings, you need to make sure that the gap is correct for the least worn (smallest diameter) area of the cylinder. You also need to make sure that you get the piston ring groves cleaned out good otherwise there may be interference preventing the rings from fitting properly.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RustyFarmall

06-30-2005 17:02:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: what head work is needed when ringing M??? in reply to scruffyia, 06-30-2005 09:04:44  
Take the head to a good automotive machine shop and tell them to do whatever is necessary to make it right. Remember, the head is easily one half of the engine, if the head isn't right, the rest of the engine won't be right either. I have never seen an engine that didn't show a significant improvement from a valve job, even when the engine had just been rebuilt about 2 years ago.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
El Toro

06-30-2005 12:35:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: what head work is needed when ringing M??? in reply to scruffyia, 06-30-2005 09:04:44  
I would have a valve job done on the head. Need to replace any valves that are too thin and guides
should be replaced since they can contribute to
oil usage. I would use a glaze breaker in the cylinders and then install a new ring in those
cylinders to see what the ring gap is, should be between .010" -.020". Excessive ring gap would require a new sleeve kit. Hal



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
26Red

06-30-2005 11:45:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: what head work is needed when ringing M??? in reply to scruffyia, 06-30-2005 09:04:44  
Maybe a compression test on the cylinders would give you a better perspective on what needs to be really done? Alot of these tractors will burn a little oil and run fine for chore work. But if you're annoyed with the oil burning, go all out and have the head overhauled. Grind the seats, lap the valves and put in new valve stem seals...



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dej(JED)

06-30-2005 10:00:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: what head work is needed when ringing M??? in reply to scruffyia, 06-30-2005 09:04:44  
I would pull the head with manifold attached.
The head probably won't need plained and if you haven't been losing power you probably don't need the valves redone. There are a lot of guys who are going to argue that one though. You can take the head to an auto parts store and have them redo the head and valves. The valves will probably be well worn and they will try to have you replace them and the valve guides. If when you look at the head from the valve side and you don't see any black spot or obvious burn marks, I wouldn't bother redoing it. Remember all we want to dohere is stop the oil burn and pep her up a little, correct? I have reused head gaskets with a high temp sealer and added a couple of extra psi torque to teh spec. Also on an M you don't need to split it to do teh clutch. That is a simple job through teh bottom where the belley pump is fitte din.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tim...Ok

06-30-2005 09:57:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: what head work is needed when ringing M??? in reply to scruffyia, 06-30-2005 09:04:44  
I doubt I would have it planed unless it had made a habit of not holding head gaskets in the past..but while you got it off and doing rings,I would want a basic valve job and seals,just to make sure your not still smoking after new rings..



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy