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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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tap and stud extraction tips, please

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Kevin Brooks

06-22-2005 11:35:08




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Folks,
I need the greatest minds of antique tractor restoration to assist in this dilemma: the front rail cap screws to my '51 M have broken off leaving the studs frozen inside. I have broken a stud extractor on one screw and broken a 5/8" tap in another. In both cases parts of the broken extraction tools are sticking out - though not by much. The small extractor stud still has left over screw around it might be reached from the inside, pounding it back out, but the startup crank is in the way. Ditto for the larger tap. I don't know if rewelding the end of the tap will allow unscrewing/removal. I am not sure if a torch will blast out only the tap and leave surrounding metal in tact. Anyone with similar experiences? By the way, I did use plenty of penetrating liquid, heat, hard blows from a hammer, prayer beads and ouiggie board chants prior to all this.

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James2

06-22-2005 19:21:22




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 Re: tap and stud extraction tips, please in reply to Kevin Brooks, 06-22-2005 11:35:08  
I possess all the welding/torch equipment, but never seem to find the time to practice welding or torch use enough, that I am comfortable cutting/welding on anything which should look good. Do not mind heating something up, then loosening, but not cutting anything out. So my answer to your problem is to have a few carbide bits which will cut just about anything. I have drilled out an "easy out" and thru a ball bearing with these miracle workers. Damn expensive, but do the job. Have also removed a tap with a tap extractor, but if it is in tight it could be a struggle. I have had some success with square rather than spiral easy-outs, but usually I just give up and use the carbide bits and then maybe a left hand thread tap to grip and remove the remaing fragment,or just a standard tap if only a thin shell remains. I'm sure that a welding and torching is quicker and probably more effective, but this is an alternate that I feel more comfortable with.

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Herb In Tx

06-22-2005 14:06:27




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 Re: tap and stud extraction tips, please in reply to Kevin Brooks, 06-22-2005 11:35:08  
An industrial tool supply store will have an extractor for the broken tap. Little pricey but cheaper than a new casting. As for the extractor if you did not drill to large a hole try to weld a 9/16 heavy washer to the remains of the bolt and then weld a nut to the washer. Have done this many times on bolts that were broken on dozer undercarriages and such. works really well. I usualy got to them after the owners mechanics have had to give up. You can imagine some of the stuff I have run up against. Most of it Knee deep in mud or at the bottom of a salt mine or such working from my service truck.

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FC

06-22-2005 13:37:41




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 Re: tap and stud extraction tips, please in reply to Kevin Brooks, 06-22-2005 11:35:08  
I am with Rusty on this one....I had a broken transmission drain plug on my C which nothing would get hold of. Tried everything and was ready to drill it out and hope I did not harm the threads. As a last resort I used a small wire welder I have to weld a bolt into the recess or what was left of it. I then hit it with pb blaster while it was still hot (probably not a good idea), after it cooled for a few minutes a wrench took it right out. It almost felt like I could have backed it out by hand. A stick welder would probably have worked better, but you use what you have.

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captaink

06-22-2005 13:32:40




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 Re: tap and stud extraction tips, please in reply to Kevin Brooks, 06-22-2005 11:35:08  
I agree with Rusty those screw extractors are usually nothing but trouble. I call them “easy outs” because the only screws they will work on come out easy.

Now then, yes you can weld a nut on bolts but I don’t think it will work on the tap. If you are a good welder the first time on a bolt will work, else wise it may take a few tries. It usually works best if you do the welding just before you go to bed and then try to remove the bolt the next morning.

As far as the tap, you are working on a 5/8 inch bolt which gives you a little room but not a lot for error. If you have an acetylene torch you can use a small heating tip and get the tap hot enough to melt it out. Once the tap starts to melt I turn up the O2 just enough to start to blow the tap out. The resulting slag will chip out easier with a small chisel than the tap will. Patience here is definitely a virtue as this can be very time consuming.

Also, cast iron does not oxidize (cut with a torch) very easy so your chances of ruining the casing are not as great as with regular steel. Another thing that is not common knowledge is that oil on cast makes it very difficult to machine. So all that penetrating oil you used to try to free up the bolt now makes it more difficult to tap the threads. Don’t be upset with yourself it’s a catch 22 type of thing you really don’t have a choice but to use the oil on rusted bolts, then if it twists off you have to deal with the consequences.

I wish you the best…

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Wayne Swenson

06-22-2005 13:26:51




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 Re: tap and stud extraction tips, please in reply to Kevin Brooks, 06-22-2005 11:35:08  
You can use a Oxy-Acetylene cutting torch to "burn" the broken bolt or thread tap out of the casting. The casting has so much mass that it doesn"t have time to get hot enough for the oxygen stream to burn. Just don"t heat on the casting itself or you can melt it also.
The broken bolt/tap should be heated red/white hot and then hit the oxygen lever. GENERALLY the bolt only will be burned out leaving an empty bolt hole. Many sparks will blow back out of the hole so be sure to use eye protection. A #5 lens will do the trick. The torch tip may get temporarily covered with molten metal and necessitate shutting down the flame to clean the tip. Take your time and be careful. Get that container of used oil, old rags, etc. out of the way and have at it.

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RustyFarmall

06-22-2005 12:20:41




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 Re: tap and stud extraction tips, please in reply to Kevin Brooks, 06-22-2005 11:35:08  
Take all of those screw extractor things you have and throw them in the scrap iron pile, they are nothing but trouble and very rarely work. What you need to do is weld a nut to the broken bolt, (arc welder or wire welder) the heat will loosen the stuck bolt, and you can put a wrench on the nut and just back the broken bolt out of there like it never broke in the first place.



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Lou

06-22-2005 12:42:44




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 Re: tap and stud extraction tips, please in reply to RustyFarmall, 06-22-2005 12:20:41  
Rusty Can I get you to expand on that a little, I also have a couple of broken bolts which are recessed in a little.You just put a nut over the hole and weld it on? Thanks Lou



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