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OT - logging operations

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FC

06-15-2005 07:12:56




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This is off the topic of tractors, but I feel I am asking the right folks, and always get good advice here. I am having a difficult time deciding a path to take concerning the recent removal of a tree, and some damage caused on my property by a logger while harvesting timber on a neighbors property. The adjoining property was only recently purchased and the new owner had the property surveyed, then brought in a logger to harvest some of the larger trees. A few weeks ago I walked along the property line to discover that a 18" diameter tree had been removed from my side of the line, and his equipment had 'downed' some smaller trees on my side in the process. No fence existed here, but there was a survey flag not 6' away from the missing tree. I spoke to the logger in person, and he said that if he removed a tree from my property he would pay for it, and that the forester who marked the timber had marked the tree for removal (I had looked for marked timber on my side and never saw any prior to this). This was the last I heard from him, and he does not return my calls. I have not spoken to the landowner as I had hoped to keep him out of the picture, and it wasn't his fault in my mind. One part of me says let it go and forget it, and the other part of me says I should contact the land owner, and local law enforcement on the matter and see what they have to say. My thinking is that temptation got to him as this is in a remote area and figured no one would notice. It seemed strange that he almost immediately knew the exact tree I was referring to when I described the location to him.

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Midwest redneck

06-15-2005 16:29:37




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
I would take the money that was offered to you and then let things be. I have a quick story that I would like to mention. Years ago here in Mich. my old boss has a friend that bought 10 acres and it was all wooded, he maybe paid $25K for the land. He called Detroit Edison and said "I marked off the area where I want to you to cut the trees for the power line poles and that is it. Well a week goes by and he goes up to the land on the weekend and sees that the contractor that did the work screwed up big time and clear cut the front five acres into one big pile of mulch, this land owner was *issed off. He calls Edison and raises #ell. The broad on the phone at Edison takes the complaint and the next day a guy calls up the land owner and says "will you be willing to take a $10,000 out of court settlement" He says Uhmmmmm..... sure. and that was the end of the story.

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Pharmall

06-15-2005 15:30:19




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
Had a similar thing happen about ten years ago. New neighbor hired someone to cut up cordwood. It was only a couple 12" oaks that were within ten feet of the property line, and I didn't say anything - just put up some more visible markers. But the same thing happened the next spring, so I spoke with him. We got things straight and he volunteered a couple unsplit cords.

I'd get the property owner involved. Even though it wasn't his fault (probably), it is his responsibility and he has a right to know if someone working for him is damaging anothers property. Let the other property owner deal with the hired help if he wants. Not necessarily looking for compensation here, just wouldn't want to see it happen again. My .02 Jeff

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Nebraska Cowman

06-15-2005 14:22:11




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
FC, i think you are getting a lot of bad advice here. People tend to think of what a tree is worth sawed into lumber at the retail level. But it wasn't. You didn't have to cut it, or skid it, or haul it, or saw it, or deliver the lumber, etc etc etc. So if the logger is willing to give you a few dollars I'd advise you to take what he offers and forget it.



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Pete in Cal

06-15-2005 14:07:34




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
The penalty in Oregon for cutting over the line is triple stumpage. MBF, (thousand board feet) is determined by the size of the stump. Value is determined by species, diameter and log grade. Be sure that the property line marker is truly on the line, that the surveror didn't step out to get a clear sight and the stake you see is just a reference point for the actual line. Good luck



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chris va

06-16-2005 20:12:35




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to Pete in Cal, 06-15-2005 14:07:34  
As I remember it's the same here in Virginia. I was in the forestry business some years ago. It's the foresters job to mark the timber sale and the loggers to stay within the boundries. Of the loggers I've worked with 99.9% were honest and did a great job. But with the price they can get for some logs (export) it may be tempting. I'd continue to talk with the logger and if you get no where and it bothers you talk to a local county or state forester, that's what your tax dollar pays them to do. Just my 2 cents...

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El Toro

06-15-2005 13:55:34




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
We have a law here in MD as to what Wardner mentioned. You do not need a lawyer to file a civil suit. I think it was only $13.00 to file
and that included having that court action hand carried to the individual.
Your court house will tell you what is needed when you file the paper work. Don't think this won't jerk his jaw when he is served with this.

Do as some have suggested on getting estimates
as to damage and value of the tree and photos. Hal

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Wardner

06-15-2005 11:45:51




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
We have small claim courts in MA. You don't need representation to file against a business or individual where damages are less than $2500.

Convincing documentation will get a ruling in your favor. I would probably draft up a letter with a description of the damage and have the original surveyor or a new one sign it. I would also get an estimate from a sawmill on the value of the log or logs based on the stump size and species. I would also take alot of photos. I think you can recover reasonable costs incurred for your trouble.

You will probably settle out of court when the logger receives his summons and you receive his subsequent phone call.

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Chris in Washington

06-15-2005 11:00:22




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
Written correspondence with the logger is appropriate. Send a certified letter. If he still refuses to respond (which is likely), you can bring in the law and/or lawyers. It depends on how far you want to push it. Another option is going through your neighbor. I understand the need to be neighborly, and not wanting to ruffle your neighbor's feathers. But he profitted from the sale of your tree. He should take some of the responsibility.

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Nebraska Cowman

06-15-2005 10:23:52




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
If the logger is willing to pay for the tree by all means take his money. Whatever you agree on will be money in your pocket and you sure don't want to involve Lawyers (they don't need a cut of your money) and you sure don't want to make enemys with your neighbor. SETTLE OUT OF COURT!



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Magman

06-15-2005 08:38:30




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
Well thats about right. He probly saw the tree and said theres a good vinier tree and desided nobody would ever know. Now if it was a hard maple Cherry or Oak and it got sent for vinier it could be worth some good money. Here in NY there used to be a law that if a logger took a tree it was only fined in the courts and it was like a 25.00 or 50.00 dollar fine but they have since changed that to a much biiger fine and payment. I know a logger next door that has a small time operation and uses it to survive in the winter he did this once and got sued and in all kinds of trouble. But the thing is it was not his fault it was a bad line or the landowner told him it was his or something. Being sued was not something I would have done with this guy becuase he is as honest as the day is long and made a mistake. But On the other hand a lot of these loggers are ruthless theives these days have seen a few of them to say they only took 4 loads of logs out and darn it I saw 6 go out. I would have a other logger check it out or a forestor and see what they think may have happened or what it may have been worth. Get a hold of the land owner and say I dont want to start trouble with my neighbor BUT THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED And tell him you feel you have been wronged and would like to be compensated who knows his homeowners may even cover it. If he wants to get hostle get a police report filed emeditly. I sure would. JUST A FEW THOUGHT FROM ME JON

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Andy Martin

06-15-2005 08:15:51




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
First step, have a lawyer write him a letter, and copy the neighbor if the neighbor did not visit with you before he brought in the logger. If he did, call him and let him know what occurred.

You said he would not return your calls, so written communication is appropriate. He trespassed and stole.



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El Toro

06-15-2005 07:40:43




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 Re: OT - logging operations in reply to FC, 06-15-2005 07:12:56  
If you know where to contact the logger, I would
get in touch with him to see if he's willing to pay for your tree and any damages that was done to your property. The new owner of the property
that adjoins yours probably knows the name of the logger.

If you can not get any satisfaction from the logger or he fails to respond to your calls, I would file a civil suit agaist him through your local court. This will get his attention real quick. Take some video and pictures of the area where the encroachment occurred. Hal

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