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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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B275 Steering Q's

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Derek Broerse

04-23-2005 11:39:13




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My tractor is extremely hard to turn. I mean extremely! I am 6'3" 285 lbs, as you can imagine I can put a pretty fair amount of force on it. There is a loader on it but this is well beyond even just extra weight I think.

There is a broken off 'spinner' on the steering wheel--unless someone put it on there as a joke I would imagine that once upon a time you could actually use it. I can pull full strength with both hands WHILE MOVING and just barely turn the steering.

The weird thing was that when the diesel quit the other day (due to blocked fuel line as it turned out) we towed it back to the shop with the Jubilee (The Farmall A kept getting stuck, long story). What was strange was that while it was being pulled (and NOT pulled with the chain pointing upwards to remove weight--straight forward with maybe a downward slope) was that the tractor actually felt substantially EASIER to steer! The chain was hooked in a "U" grabbing on both sides of the front axle, with another chain going from the center to the Jubilee.

Further investigation of the steering has yielded the following:

The front axle clamp bolts (for width adjustment) are not tight and have not been in decades. There is a pin thru a hole that has kept it all in line but without the clamps tight the hole is now oblonged in the tube and the whole axle can rotate on its center front and rear quite a ways--could this have a detrimental affect on the steering?

Tie rod joints etc. all seem reasonably tight and in good shape overall. I am having difficulty getting grease into the spindle legs, the fittings almost seem to be tapped above solid steel, with no place for the grease to travel.

I thought the steering box was wiped out, but it appears the whole box and column is physically loose. I can grab the column or the pitman arm and move the whole works about 1/4" back and forth. I can't do much about this as it seems I need to remove the whole loader frame to remove the tank to access it--this will be happening in coming months though...

With ALL weight removed (jacked up off other areas) the steering operates smoothly.

I have driven other loader tractors without power steering and while they are heavy, this one takes the cake.

Speaking of powersteering, I would like to add it to mine if I can locate the parts... so if any of you who are searching wreckers please keep an eye out for me I'd appreciate it, there are no wreckers around here. I believe the B250, B275, and B414 are all the same.

In the meantime, what should I do with this mess? Advice?

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jdemaris

04-24-2005 07:24:29




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to Derek Broerse, 04-23-2005 11:39:13  
First of all, B-275 has hard steering. You can add a power-steering system fairly easily by using the tie-rod sensor type found in many large trucks and some farm tractors. You just make a bracket and add it to your existing tie-rod. You can tap into the main hydraulics with a flow-divider and don't need to add a separate pump since the B-275 has live hydraulics anyway. Some people have used the power-steering off the IHC 915 combine on the B-275. Also, keep in mind the B-275 is still being made new - with power steering so you can probably buy new parts and add on. Mahindra in India used to have a joint venture with IH but now sells the tractors under their own name. They are still using the B-275 and B-414 platform in some of their new tractors - they just added some modern sheetmetal. Here is some tech. info on new Mahindra tractors built on old platforms: The E40-DI has a three cylinder 115 cu in diesel. Everything else is almost identical to a
B-275-414 including manual steering and a 8.3 gpm hydraulic pump, except it has a
single clutch. It is rated 39 engine HP @ 2450 rpm and 31 pto hp. The C4005-DI has the 144 cu in four cylinder diesel that was introduced in the B-275 and
hydrostatic power steering that was first offered in the 424 and the dual clutch to give
live pto. It also has the 8.3 gpm hydraulic pump. It is rated 39.5 engine HP @ 2300 rpm
and 31.5 pto hp. The C4505-DI has the 154 cu in diesel that was introduced in the B-414 and also has
hydrostatic power steering and dual clutch. It has 8.3 gpm hydraulic pump. It is rated 43
engine HP @ 2300 rpm and 34.5 pto hp. All of the gearing on these three models, pto, etc, is of the same design as the 275, 414,
424, 444 line of tractors. The C5005-DI also has the 154 cu in diesel but has partial mesh gears in the transmission
which was introduced in some of the later successor models of the same design by IHC.
It also has dual clutch live pto and a 9.4 gpm hydraulic
pump. It is rated 51 engine HP @ 2600 rpm and 42 pto hp.

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Derek Broerse

04-24-2005 10:04:11




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to jdemaris, 04-24-2005 07:24:29  
Interesting. I didn't know they were still in production. The local IH dealer told me the parts were discontinued, and when they were available they were around $1400 for the set.

I was considering fabricating something... I hadn't looked at big trucks yet but did find that 1958-64 Chevys, 63-82 Corvette, 60's Mustangs/Cougars/Falcons etc all used the same design. Unfortunately, all are prized pieces themselves and (so far anyways) I have not been able to locate a complete set for a reasonable price. I'll keep looking, as well as looking into the Mahindra parts.

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George 2

04-23-2005 19:13:00




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to Derek Broerse, 04-23-2005 11:39:13  
The B250, B275, and B414 without power steering were all pigs to steer even without a loader. Add a loader and they are down right miserable. My father went through this back in 1964 when we bought a new B414 gas without power steering. After a year or so my dad got power steering put on it by swapping with another tractor on the dealer's lot. There was a 1000% improvement in stering ease. Later on a 1501 loader was mounted on it and it was still easy to steer with power steering. I still have the tractor and it is still easy to steer even when using the loader. So bite the bullet and buy a power steering unit off a newer tractor being parted out. The tractors to watch for are the 354, 364(USA only), and 384. A B414 unit will also work. Note that to mount it you will have to purchase the whole front axle assembly as well as they are the square variety (not round).

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Derek Broerse

04-24-2005 09:53:52




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to George 2, 04-23-2005 19:13:00  
Thanks for the info. It does sound like PS would be a big help, but I think mine is actually binding so I will need to correct that first.

Those models you mention, are they all square axles? I was under the impression that the cylinder connected on the linkage on the left hand side--is it actually on the front? Is that why I would need to swap axles?



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Derek Broerse

04-24-2005 09:53:51




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to George 2, 04-23-2005 19:13:00  
Thanks for the info. It does sound like PS would be a big help, but I think mine is actually binding so I will need to correct that first.

Those models you mention, are they all square axles? I was under the impression that the cylinder connected on the linkage on the left hand side--is it actually on the front? Is that why I would need to swap axles?



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George 2

04-24-2005 14:12:04




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to Derek Broerse, 04-24-2005 09:53:51  
Yes, the cylinder is on the left side as you would expect. The round axle was never used with power steering. Only the square axle was. The power steering models used larger splined knuckle shafts, splined tie rod arms, a wishbone stabilizer bar, a dual hydraulic pump, larger hydraulic suction line. So that is why I said you have to buy the whole assembly to convert it. I remember doing this with my father's tractor over 40 years ago. There are no power steering models with round axles

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michael Soldan

04-23-2005 18:41:37




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to Derek Broerse, 04-23-2005 11:39:13  
Derek I didn' see your reply the other day, Niagara on the Lake, about 2 1/2 hours from me, did you check Haugholm books for a manual?He will have factory manuals in used condition, a lot cheaper than E-bay....Mike in Exeter Ontario



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Michael Soldan

04-23-2005 17:50:30




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to Derek Broerse, 04-23-2005 11:39:13  
Derek, I think your description of that center hole being worn elongated would allow the axle to rotate enough to jam your steering, also check tire pressure. I discovered a 15 and 16" tire on my B250 when I got it home, steers good with two 16"s now. Remove the grease zirks and make sure they are not plugged, then try to get as much as you can into the spindles. Tow in can restrict your steering when the weight of the tractor is on the wheels. My B250 manual suggests that toe in can only be set when the steering is in the neutral position and the front axle is not tilted. I would take from that, that your problem is in the axle and the elongated hole. Measure from the front, lip of the rim at hub height across to the other rim lip , then measure the rear rim lip to rear rim lip. The rear measurement should be 1/4th to 3/8ths inch wider than the front measurment. Also the tow-in should be adjusted evenly between both drag links to set it properly. As to the hole that is worn, I would center the axle and tighten the axle bolts. If it was mine I would drill a new hole and pin it , but a welding shop could weld up the elongated hole and then drill a new hole where it originally was. I think that would fix your problem. As to the loose steering box that would make slop in the steering but shouldn't make it stiff...good luck from Mike in Exeter Ontario

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Derek Broerse

04-24-2005 09:43:37




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to Michael Soldan, 04-23-2005 17:50:30  
Hi Mike,
I think your thinking matches my own--the word I was missing from my description is 'binding'! It feels like it is stuck but I can force it past... thats why I figured it wasn't just normal heavy steering.

I have not actually measured the alignment yet (and with all the rain and sitting in the field I don't want to bring it up the fresh gravel! My old man would kill me!) nor have I confirmed tire sizes--I did notice that one was a Goodyear and the other was another brand, but both were fairly new looking. For the loader work I should probably inflate the fronts harder anyways.

To me, it seems between the loose axle and loose steering box that there is a lot of free travel in the steering which may be putting the balljoints under extreme travel and stresses under the right circumstances... and this may be indeed where the binding is coming from.


I pulled all the front zerks out that weren't taking grease and cleaned them out. They are all ok now, but the spindles themselves seemed weird. While the zerks were out I used a scratch awl to poke around in the hole where they had been--there did not appear to be any sort of hole of groove for the grease to travel in. The grease fitting basically opens into a blank piece of steel. Could the spindles be mixed left to right or something? There should be a groove but even moving the steering from lock to lock I cannot locate one thru the holes.

I ended up ordering a manual thru this website--they list a 300+ page book in 12 sections--sounds an awful lot like the binder I was bidding on on ebay. Maybe its a reproduction of it? Their descriptions are quite vague. Including shipping it was still cheaper than what I bid on ebay (it came to $59 here). I have my fingers crossed that it is a useful book.

Good news, though. I have seen a red tractor hood-high in the weeds about 3 blocks from my house for many many years without moving. Recently, it was dragged by another tractor (on flat tires) closer to the road so they could put in a new vineyard. Sure enough, now that I can get a little closer to it (and see the side profile instead of the rear) it is indeed a B275 diesel. I am in the process of trying to find out who actually owns the farm. I'm still about 35 feet away but can still read the faded decals... it appears to have been joined by a Ford 600--probably the tractor that pulled it there. Wish me luck.

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Chris1roll

05-11-2005 09:22:24




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 Re: B275 Steering Q's in reply to Derek Broerse, 04-24-2005 09:43:37  
We have just had the whole stupidly heavy steering situation on our 275. It was heavy to start with but when we fitted the loader to it you couldn"t turn the wheel even when moving. Also, the wheel could be turned by about 20degrees either way before it would have any effect on the wheels at all.

The 275 steering box is rather primitve, inside is a "finger" that follows the worm drive on the column, and this in turn moves the arm that comes out of the box.
Once the finger and/or worm is worn, thats it, there is no adjustment of clearance or anything.

Now, we also have a 276 (and a 414 to be rebuilt too but thats another story) in bits that we bought for spares.

The 276 steering box is far far superior. The ratio is different, so the steering is much lighter, and on the outside of the box is a screw that is used to take up and slack caused by wear in the worm or finger.
Now, the steering column comes out from the box at a different angle, so the 275 bodywork will not fit. In order to fit this column we had to change the diesel tank, the battery tray, and all the bodywork. We also modified the dashboard to fit the oil pressire guage and ammeter from the 275 in place of the warning lights that didn"t work anyway.
If you want your tractor to be original, or show condition obviously this is not an option, but for us, this is going to be a working tractor, for muking out etc, so functionality is more important.
Incidentally its not moving anywhere at the moment having had 2 injection pumps "die" in as many days...bizarre

Anyway, hopefully this may be of some use to you?

Chris

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