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Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues!

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P Backus

03-30-2005 17:22:42




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I have a 7140 Magnum with the 8.3L Cummins. Last fall it was using about 1 gal. antifreeze per day. I found a small external leak, but it's also getting in the engine oil (oil analysis tested positive) Pulled the pan off and pressure tested cooling system- no leaks on bottom end- sleeves and O rings OK. Disconnected intercooler and tested as best I could. Local independent mechanic says I should just run it until the problem makes itself known. I'm afraid that will destroy the rest of the engine. What do you think? Pull the head? Will I be able to see anything up top? Top end gaskets are expensive. Magna-flux? Run it? I'm afraid it will go down when I really need it ( I do custom baling and such).
Man, my H never gave me this much grief, and it used to be the only tractor I farmed with!
Paul

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JJK

04-01-2005 23:11:40




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 03-30-2005 17:22:42  
Magnum head gaskets most usually leak externally on the left side between the fuel filters and inj pump or in the back of the engine. There are times that I've pressure checked a cooling system and had no leaks but when it gets hot it leaks. I feel that this might be a possibillity hear and that it would be coming from the sleeves either a pin hole or o-rings(not saying that it couldn't be something else). There are test strips for testing the DCA in your anti-freeze and will tell you if you need to precharge or just change the water filter. Preventing electrolosis is very important on these engines and this minor maintenance can prevent costly repairs. I've noticed this in the tractors that come in for the winter program on a regular basis compaired to those that come in 1 in 5 years.

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El Toro

03-31-2005 04:16:30




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 03-30-2005 17:22:42  
I think krb made a wise statement about taking better care of his coolant. A lot of people
think permanent antifreeze is permanent, that's
far from the truth. It will lose its rust inhibitor and then start damaging the internal
engine components.

That antifreeze should be changed every other year
and in some cases every year. We had a German
tank engine that wouldn't crank and they used a slave truck to jump start it and here they bent a
connecting rod. A mixture of antifreeze had leaked into one of the cylinders causing a hydrostatic lock.

If you can not see inside the radiator very well
you can make an expansion tank from a milk jug.
Run a hose from the radiator overflow into the jug and see if any bubbles are present. Hal

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P Backus

03-31-2005 20:21:36




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to El Toro, 03-31-2005 04:16:30  
Thanks Hal, The radiator does already have an overflow tank, and I never see any bubbling, but then it's hard to see when operating the tractor. It does suck it dry though. I would think that if it was getting combustion gasses in the cooling system, it wouldn't suck the coolant back out of the overflow. Is my thinking right on that? There was no dripping coolant when we pressure tested it with the pan off.
Paul

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El Toro

04-01-2005 03:36:12




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 03-31-2005 20:21:36  
Hi Paul, Since you're loosing coolant from the recovery tank, have you noticed any unusual white smoke from the exhaust? It may be getting into the combustion chamber. Hal



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P Backus

04-01-2005 12:39:26




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to El Toro, 04-01-2005 03:36:12  
I did look for white smoke, but didn't see anything unusual. Of course on cold start up it will smoke a bit, but not any more than I would expect. Hey, this is WI. Who wouldn't smoke on some of those cold mornings?! It is entirely possible that it is getting in the combustion chamber tho.
Paul



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El Toro

04-01-2005 12:55:07




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 04-01-2005 12:39:26  
I have heard that you're ice skating by Thanksgiving in WI. Hal



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P Backus

04-01-2005 20:13:52




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to El Toro, 04-01-2005 12:55:07  
Well, if i was going ice skating, I'd make sure that it wasn't too deep under the ice. It is true though that often I have trouble getting the plow in the ground because of frost around Thanksgiving time.
Hey El Toro, as long as we're talking antifreeze, do you think there are any additives that will maintain the rust prevention properties of antifreeze? I've heard that when you take old antifreeze in to be recycled, they just clean it up and add new "stuff" and resell it again. I dunno.....
Paul

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K.B.-826

03-30-2005 20:59:00




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 03-30-2005 17:22:42  
Check the oil cooler yet? Definetly could be the head or head gasket, sure parts are expensive, but what does a new engine cost? Definetly don't keep running it



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JB2

03-30-2005 20:53:05




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 03-30-2005 17:22:42  
Hi P Backus, I don't have any experience with this engine but my nephew is a heavy equip mechanic for a construction company and he works on lots of big Cats and Cummins engines. At xmas he was telling me about a 3 year old Cat engine that was loosing 6 gallons of coolant a day but would not leak under pressure test. Finally tore it down at xmas time and it had cavitation pin holes in 3 of 6 sleeves.

My 2 cents
JB2

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the tractor vet

03-30-2005 20:26:42




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 03-30-2005 17:22:42  
Now on that one i am not going to be much help as i have never been into one of them as they were to new for this area and my old custemer base the newest that i have been into is the 88 seires and that was on a limited bases. Just how much pressure did you pump it up to ? and did you have the valve cover off ? sometimes a coolant leak can come from the top of the head and run down. if the sleeves are not leaking then it would have to be either a pin hole in them or head gskt or maybe a soft plug in the top of the head now this is just a guess like i said i have never been in and 8.3 cummins and don't even have a book on one . Something new for me to learn. Pump it up to atleast 20# and let it set over nite with a pice of cardboard under it .

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P Backus

03-30-2005 21:53:23




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to the tractor vet, 03-30-2005 20:26:42  
Good sugestions- We had it pumped up to 14 or 15 lbs because that is the rated cooling system pressure I think. i didn't have the valve cover off- i should have. It was pumped up for a couple of hours, and it didn't lose pressure. It will suck the coolant out of the overflow tank and then the radiator level proceeds to go down. My reasoning on this is that if there is a haed gasket leak or a pinhole, the compression pressure would push the antifreeze out, not let it in. Is this accurate? As far as seeing bubbles in the radiator, it's pretty hard to see in the rad due to location under hood. But again, if it was doing that, would it suck the resevoir dry? No oil shows up in the coolant. Would that rule out the oil cooler? Again, oil pressure is greater than coolant pressure.
Paul

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the tractor vet

03-31-2005 05:36:05




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 03-30-2005 21:53:23  
If it is the cooler then the oil pressure is grater then coolant and it will show up in the radator not in the pan ,It has to be either going out the stack or it is dripping into the pan . Permant antifreeze will eat the bearings out in short order . After ya find the problem replace the mains and rods this is cheep insurrance . You may be looking at and overhaul . I am going to have to make a couple of calls to some old friends that are Cummins experts one owens Pittsburg Power former Diesel Injection and the other is and old cummins mechanic and service manager beleive me when i tell ya them two boys know cummins .

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P Backus

03-31-2005 20:10:20




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to the tractor vet, 03-31-2005 05:36:05  
Tractor vet, any info that your old friends might have would be appreciated. I don't necessarily have to fix it cheap, but I don't want to throw money at it for no reason. From what I could see from below, the sleeves look good with no galling and there was no leaking. I would think that if it cavitated a hole in a sleeve, it would have leaked,no? There is no oil in the antifreeze.
Thanks, Paul

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krb

03-30-2005 19:53:07




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 03-30-2005 17:22:42  
My 1486 started getting anti-freeze in the oil last fall. I just new it couldn't be the sleeves, they had only been in there six years. Put on a new oil cooler, didn't help, so I quit using it. This winter I took it apart, found the problem, a pinhole in a sleeve under the top O ring on one piston. There was a lot of cavitation on the other sleeves also. I had pressure tested the cooling system with the oil pan off, and I couldn't see any leaks. Guess I'll take better care of my coolant.

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El Toro

03-30-2005 18:58:48




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to P Backus, 03-30-2005 17:22:42  
Have you noticed any bubbles in the radiator when the engine is running? Could be a leaking head gasket or a cracked head. I would pressure check
the coolant system and then look for any leakage
into the oil pan. Antifreeze is hard on bearings,
so I would do some checking before running the
tractor very much. Hal



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Ken in Idaho

04-01-2005 08:59:55




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to El Toro, 03-30-2005 18:58:48  
I had a 1486 that was getting oil in the antifreeze, I pressure tested it and couln't see any leaks, but i figured it was a sleeve so I tore it apart, found a pinhole abut two and a half inches up from the bottom of the sleeve under the top o ring. I think the piston was covering the pinhole when I tried the pressure, if I had turned the engine over one half turn I might have been able to see the leak.

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El Toro

04-01-2005 09:27:21




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to Ken in Idaho, 04-01-2005 08:59:55  
I forgot to tell you that I saw that trial on Court Tv about the woman that killed her husband with a hatchet that was in Idaho. Hal



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El Toro

04-01-2005 09:21:36




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to Ken in Idaho, 04-01-2005 08:59:55  
I think that antifreeze is very corrosive once
it loses its rust inhibitor. I had a 283 Chevy
block bored oversize and had new freeze plugs
installed and some rusted thru in less than a year
of running. I installed new plugs made from neophrene and you tightened them with a wrench.
They were hard to get to with the engine still in the truck. I installed new antifreeze too when I installed this engine. It will cause a lot of radiator problems too, if it isn't changed and having the radiator back flushed. A major cause of overheating when those tubes are blocked.

You were lucky in finding your leak. Hal

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Ken in Idaho

04-01-2005 12:07:35




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 Re: Hey 'Vet or whoever-Magnum engine issues! in reply to El Toro, 04-01-2005 09:21:36  
I need a little luck sometimes, don't know about the hatchet tho...



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