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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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IS MY 404 RARE

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SPR

03-13-2005 09:16:19




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I HAVE A 404 WITH BAR AXLES AND HI-LO TRANS. SOME ONE TOLD ME IT WAS RARE WITH THAT TRANS. CAN ANYONE HELP ME FIND OUT OR POINT ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION




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Harold H

03-13-2005 16:22:27




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to SPR, 03-13-2005 09:16:19  
We didn't sell many 404's but the dual range was optional and I believe was more common on the International 404 than on the Farmall 404. There was also a forward/reverse shuttle shift available only on the I-2404 which was the industrial version of the I-404. I don't exactly know what you mean by bar axles. The dual range was a $195.00 factory option. Power steering was $160.00.

Harold H



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CNKS

03-13-2005 10:30:43




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to SPR, 03-13-2005 09:16:19  
Don't think so, far as I know the dual range 4 speed was standard. However, I beleive the design of that transmission was taken from the British built tractors. Fairly common transmission in that size tractor.



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Hugh Mackay

03-13-2005 11:30:09




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to CNKS, 03-13-2005 10:30:43  
CNKS: 404 is pure 200, 230 and 240 transmission with an enlarged torque tube, thus allowing room for a two speed gear box or foreward reverse within the torque tube. When you shift the hi low the pto changes speed with it. I think the purpose of the two speed gear box was farmers wanting to use tractor for transplanting. I have an IT service manual for 100, 130, 140, 200, 230, 240, 404 and 2404. These tractors are clearly Super A and C technology.

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CNKS

03-13-2005 17:04:38




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to Hugh Mackay, 03-13-2005 11:30:09  
I thought it was similar to the 240, but the only book I have that mentions the transmission says it is a dual range -- I wasn't aware of the 2-speed in the torque tube, so I withdraw my comparison to the US or British-built utilities. I usually learn something every day. One way to do that is to blurt out an incorrect statement, perhaps I will learn not to someday. Also the question about the live or dead PTO in the 404--Another of my unreliable sources says that IH needed to sell 636 live pto equipped 404's to recover the development costs. They also estimated that other companies would sell 1500 live pto tractors that would otherwise go to IH. The authorization to convert the 404 to live pto came in late October 1962 -- don't know when the first one was actually produced. The Farmall version was built thru 1967, the utility thru 1968. Don't know if the live pto became standard, or if it was an option.

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George 2

03-13-2005 14:31:02




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to Hugh Mackay, 03-13-2005 11:30:09  
Guys; I have a Farmall 404 with the high low transmission. It is an updated Super C with the torque tube increased in size at the back to accommodate the dual range unit. Most of the 404 Farmall's I have seen are single range 4 speed units that were used in the tobacco belt around Tillsonburg, Ontario. The unit I got was originally equipped with a edible bean pulling attachment and needed the additional speeds for bean pulling. There were only about 2600 Farmall 404's made so I think there were probably less than 500 to 1000 made with the dual range unit. If you add in the wide front, 12.4 x 36 tires, deluxe seat, dual hydraulic valves with remote control couplers, and power steering you really have a rare one. Mine has all this except the power steering. Nice little tractor but they could have installed an auxiliary step to get on and a live PTO. That old transmission drive PTO doesn't cut it.

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Hugh MacKay

03-13-2005 15:40:34




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to George 2, 03-13-2005 14:31:02  
George: I made the statment that a 404 equiped with two speed gear box, would also change pto speed when that two speed gear box was shifted. I made this statment based on what I see of power train in the IT manual. Could you confirm or deny whether I am correct, as I've never seen one equiped with the two speed gear box.

I have another question. Would that torque tube and gear box fit a Farmall 130. Probably one would have to forget 130 touch control and go with 404 hydraulic resovoir and valves. I ask this as I have a 130, soon to need some rebuilding. I have thought for some time I'd like to put a C-135 in for plowing. I'm up here in this western Middlesex Clay and that 2x12 fast hitch plow takes just about all 130 has for power. I also do a bit of row crop cultivation where I'd like to reduce speed a bit, maybe even a bit of transplanting.

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Jim Becker

03-13-2005 18:47:19




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-13-2005 15:40:34  
Hugh, here is one more bit to chew on. There were some 140s with a two speed gear box for slow operation. I don't know if parts were common with the 404 or not. I only saw one and never had the chance to look it over closely. It had a grape picker mounted on it. It was a small picker that did one side of a Geneva Double Curtain row at a time.



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Bruce Wa.

03-13-2005 23:38:41




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to Jim Becker, 03-13-2005 18:47:19  
The 2 speed on the 140 mounts on the back of the trans and takes the place of the stock pto unit. My friend has one and I've seen a couple more in this area. They are an after market unit and have they name Ray Bock cast on the housing. That was the name of our dealer in Puyallup,Wa.in the 50s and 60s. I could probably get a picture of my friends tractor.



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dnzz

05-12-2005 04:27:11




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to Bruce Wa., 03-13-2005 23:38:41  
i have this same tractor 2 speed rear duel hyd power steering anyone interested



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Jim Becker

03-14-2005 19:16:33




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to Bruce Wa., 03-13-2005 23:38:41  
I would like to see a picture of it.



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Hugh MacKay

03-14-2005 05:32:39




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to Bruce Wa., 03-13-2005 23:38:41  
Bruce: That would be interesting to see. Thanks in advance.



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TDK

03-13-2005 19:48:37




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 Jim Becker in reply to Jim Becker, 03-13-2005 18:47:19  
Jim, are you speaking of the "Hydra-Creeper" attachment? My parts manual shows this, but no 2-speed attachment. My parts man. only covers 140's through '67, maybe this is why it's not in it.Was is aftermarket? Interested in learning more about the 2-speed you're talking about.



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Jim Becker

03-13-2005 20:47:29




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 Re: Jim Becker in reply to TDK, 03-13-2005 19:48:37  
It was not the hydra-creeper. It was stuffed in somehow similar to the way the 404 2-speed was done. I don't know for a fact if IH made it or not. The tractor I saw was probably more recent then your parts book, but not much.

Sorry I don't know more about it right now.



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Quebec Red

03-13-2005 14:44:49




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to George 2, 03-13-2005 14:31:02  
George 2: I rember reading in an IH book that less then 275 units had the High- Low trans. Locally I know of two such animals, however they are both pretty beat. Clean ones like yours are rare. QR



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Hugh MacKay

03-13-2005 15:43:43




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to Quebec Red, 03-13-2005 14:44:49  
Red: Those pretty beat 404s you speak of, could they be for sale. Just curious.



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Quebec Red

03-13-2005 19:20:19




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 Re: IS MY 404 RARE in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-13-2005 15:43:43  
Hugh: the last 404s that came to this area about 5 years ago came from a jockey. They were North Carolina units. The older Farmalls are not coming in as trades. They are being sold to small veggie farmers around the Montreal area. The large ones-1000 acre enterprises use new machinery and Mexican labour. Not good for the equipment. (good for leasing companies). As I drive about the semi urbain areas (in my made in London Crown Vic) I see many Kubotas etc where Farmall used to rule. May we some day buy our groceries from the Honda or Toyota supermarket!!!!! !!!!! !! QR

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