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Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator???

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minnimolineman

02-19-2005 05:07:53

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I saw a low rpm turn on kit for a Delco 10SI alternator on e-bay (item 3875794475) that looks like it's designed to make the alternator kick in and gnenerate electricity at low rpms. I've also seen the regular Delco 10SIs one wire alternators listed on e-bay. Do the regular 10SI one wires work on a tractor or does one need to buy it and a low rpm kit too. I know my tractors run at lots lower rpms than my trucks. Anyone with experience with the regular one wires? --Minni

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Chris Brown

02-19-2005 19:35:44

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to minnimolineman, 02-19-2005 05:07:53

I have a 10si GM one wire ( big pulley)on my 560 diesel. When the engine is warm and I don't have to heat the glow plugs and the batteries are charged it kicks in at barely above an idle.When it is cold and a long heat on the plugs and a hard cranking it takes darn near full throttle to start the alt to charging,at least 3/4 throttle. I noticed that on chevy dumptrucks with the 8.2l detroit,they had a 145 amp one wire alt and took alot more rpms when there was more load to start charging.

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gusc

02-19-2005 19:35:32

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to minnimolineman, 02-19-2005 05:07:53

The Delco 10SI alternator doesn't need a high rpm kit. I have one on a JD 60 which has a max rpm of 1050 and it works fine. I have a one wire on my Ford 641, it came with one, and I always have to kick up the rpm to get it charging. The Ford operates at higher rpm anyway so it is not a problem.

One wires probably do need an rpm kit, one of the reasons I don't use them. The other reason is high cost. The Delco 10SI alternator is unbeatable for low cost and reliability.

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Hugh MacKay

02-20-2005 08:42:21

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to gusc, 02-19-2005 19:35:32

gusc: Exactly, dead on.

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Jason(ma)

02-19-2005 15:40:05

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to minnimolineman, 02-19-2005 05:07:53

Tisco sells what your calling a low rpm kit.

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T.B.W.

02-19-2005 13:29:06

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to minnimolineman, 02-19-2005 05:07:53

I went to the hardware store and got a 2 inch pully for an electric motor. Took my altinator and new pully to the balcksmith shop and had the 2 inch pully mounted on the new Alt. starts to charge on my M at about 1/4 rpm.

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PAULIH300

02-19-2005 09:07:09

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to minnimolineman, 02-19-2005 05:07:53

I find it a natural to rev the engine up upon starting it.It allows the engine to "clean itself out" and also indicates if the choke can be pushed in some.If you tried to rev and the engine sputters,you can fine tune the choke.Doing this once sets the 1-wire to ON and it charges no matter what speed then.I believe a generator has to turn 1200-1400 rpm before it charges at all,whereas an alternator will charge at speeds as low as 500-600rpm.When Chrysler jumped the market in 1960 and installed alternators on Valiants,they set up a bunch of them as taxi cabs and let them idle all day with lights and accessories on to show the value of the new Chrysler-Engineered Alternator.However all the cars sputtered to a stop,and would not re-start.Everybody thought the alternators were to blame and that tainted its reputation.When in fact the batteries were not dead,but the spark plugs all fouled out.Seems the oil control rings were poorly designed and idle speeds loaded the plugs with oil.A redesign of the rings solved the oil pumping problem,and Chrysler installed alternators on all 1961 cars.GM and Ford (and AMC,and imports) would take years to adopt the modern alternator.
A generator generates (very little) power from nothing,
An alternator takes low power and creates higher power....much more efficient.

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Pete7

02-19-2005 08:00:24

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to minnimolineman, 02-19-2005 05:07:53

I bought a one wire 10SI alternator and I did not like the fact that it only "turned on" if you rev'ed up the engine momentarily. It seemed like I was always looking at the amp gauge to see if I had remembered to rev it up since I re-started it. About a year ago I bought one of the low RPM kick in regulators sold on EBay and it has been working great for me. Bob M info below is new news to me in that the low RPM regulator might be sucking some power while the engine is shut done. I think the company that sells it would be able to give you info on that matter if you call them.

Pete

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Bob M

02-19-2005 06:49:43

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to minnimolineman, 02-19-2005 05:07:53

m-m man � One wire alternators will work on a tractor so long as they are spun fast enough (use the smallest pulley you can on the alternator!) However some of those �low RPM� kits work by drawing a small amount of current from the battery even when shut down. OK if you run your tractor regularly to keep the battery charged. But if it�s gonna sit idle for several weeks it will drain the battery flat. I am not certain all low RPM kits have this problem, however many of them do.

Better solution is to use a 3 wire 10SI. It�ll cost less, will turn on immediately at startup, and will not drain the battery when shut down.

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02-19-2005 06:27:09

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to minnimolineman, 02-19-2005 05:07:53

That is the advatnage of a stock alternator over a generator, then can charge at low RPM.

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Brian Schmidt

02-19-2005 06:41:17

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to JT, 02-19-2005 06:27:09

I do disagree with you on that point. The advantage to the alternator is a better service interval of the unit and proper charging of the battery. The alternators do not charge well at especially low engine rpms. Especially when the pulley sizes are geared to slow them down too.

You have to watch what you are driving the alternators with. You want as much speed out of them as possible to get them to work correctly. I don't think there is anything that can be done to them to produce power at lower rpms. That is just the nature of them. I have seen speed curves on the 10si. I will have to find it again and post it.

I have an alternator on a M and a Super A. Neither of them charge well at low engine speeds. I have taken them both in and had them checked. They put out well within the range of what they are suppose to. You can watch the needle move when they are testing mine vs. new ones. They perform the same.

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02-19-2005 11:36:56

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to Brian Schmidt, 02-19-2005 06:41:17

Generators need to turn a minimum of 1200-1400 engine rpm to charge. If an alternator will not charge at low RPM as you say, how do diesel engines sit and idle for hours at 1000 rpm and keep, heaters, lights, etc running at a truck stop? If alternators do not charge at low rpm, then why do healights not dim at an idle where they do with a generator? What are you calling low rpm?

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Stickler

02-19-2005 19:52:46

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to JT, 02-19-2005 11:36:56

Pulley size. It's the speed the alternator turns that matters, not the engine's speed.

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Brian Schmidt

02-19-2005 18:49:29

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to JT, 02-19-2005 11:36:56

I found the chart I was talking about earlier. If you review the chart you will find that the output current of the 10SI, by design, is 0 below 1200 alternator shaft RPM. So what this says is that unless you are running the correct overdrive on the belts to get 1200+ alternator RPM at 500 engine RPM, then you will not have any charging. Most tractors I have run in the range of 1400-1600 engine RPM range. So unless I am at full throttle, I am not getting much output.

Some of the conversion kits I have seen have a special super small alternator pulley. Both of mine have the standard automotive pulley. Maybe that is my problem. I need to do like one of the other fellows said and make a 2" or smaller pulley. What are you and Hugh doing for the pulley?

Thanks!!

10SI Charging RPM Chart

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Hugh MacKay

02-20-2005 04:39:42

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to Brian Schmidt, 02-19-2005 18:49:29

Brian: 3 of those 6 alternators are GM cars and truck. The other three are Super A, 130 and 140. On those 3, I use double V pullies off older V8 GM engines. Without going to shop to measure I would judge those to be 2 to 3 inch pulley. I also use a push button type starter switch to excite alternators, rather than follow Bob's diagrams with light, etc. The push button switch can not be accidentially left on, thus no problems with back feed when tractor is not running.

My first experience with alternators on these tractors was my 6 volt SA. Auto electric rebuilder suggested the push button, and I have been quite happy with it. At time I had a new 6 volt battery, he changed Delco 10SI alternator to 6 volt, even suggested the double V pulley would work better on SA for alternator placment. He supplied me with wiring diagram and the switch. That was 1992 and everything is still intact, including that same 6 volt battery. First time I ever came close to 13 years on a battery. I usually consider half that time to be good here in Canada. I do notice the battery slowing a bit. SA fired right up last week at 25F, first time it had been going since Christmas. I can't knock the system, so used the same on my 12 volt systems on 130 and 140.

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Hugh MacKay

02-19-2005 13:59:21

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to JT, 02-19-2005 11:36:56

That's right JT, I have 6 alternators and all will keep lights full beam at 500 to 650 rpm. Volt meter will read up around 14 volts as well, except for one and it is a 6 volt alternator. They are all Delco 10SI.

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little john

02-19-2005 05:43:01

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to minnimolineman, 02-19-2005 05:07:53

I have the three wire Delco, and it works fine at low RPM.

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TDK

02-19-2005 14:06:58

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to little john, 02-19-2005 05:43:01

I have a M with a 3-wire delco alternator wired like Bob M's diagrams and it charges on startup, at idle, no revving motor. Never did like to rev a cold engine.

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Bob nor. mn

02-19-2005 20:45:14

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Re: Low RPM kit for Delco 10SI alternator??? in reply to TDK, 02-19-2005 14:06:58

I put 10si on both my H and M and both were out of the box with automotive pulleys from Napa and work great.Beauty of a alt. is they are capable of a high amp. output at low rpm, early ones put out 35 amps. at just above idle and later ones are higher amp as bigger motors meant higher amp draw along with more assesories of todays equiptment.

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