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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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plowing with three point again...

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MattPage

02-08-2005 07:30:41




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Okay, was reading yesterdays posts about plowing with an aftermarket three point on a C with no draft control and it threw a stick in my spokes. I was excited about fixing up my H to use at the deer lease. Don't have any drag implements have all three point. Found a junk H with a three point and thought I could put it on my H and use it at the deer lease to keep from transporting tractors (and to get to play on the H). Ussually plant about twenty acres in scattered plots and mow with a brush hog. I thought the plow/disk/and 5-ft. mower would work O.K. if I just used spacers on the lift cylinder to control the depth... its not all level but its not rocket science work either. I haven't used a tractor without draft control at all so I'm only speculating. What do yall think? matt.

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Super A

02-08-2005 10:36:43




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to MattPage, 02-08-2005 07:30:41  
The problem with a three point hitch tillage implement with no draft control is that the implement can't "float" with ground contour changes that would cause it to go too deep or too shallow. One minute you're barely touching the ground, the next minute you're "down to the beam" and your tractor is struggling. Draft control helps to correct these changes and keep a more constant working depth. Anyway I think if you have some good gauge wheels on the plow ,you may do ok. You would need to just use the hydraulics to raise and lower the plow and the gauge wheels would control the depth. THis is essentially what happens with a trailing plow.

Someone mentioned that plows weren't meant for three point hitches. If the tractor does have draft control, they are a much more compact and maneuverable plowing outfit than the same sized tractor with trailing plow. IMO the trailer plow does a nicer job, especially if a novice like me is behind the wheel!!

Al

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Hugh MacKay

02-08-2005 10:12:29




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to MattPage, 02-08-2005 07:30:41  
Matt: I wouldn't be awfully concerned about absence of draft control. As I said in other posts both on this thread and the one yesterday, the top link and a gauge wheel should do the trick for depth control. All draft control does is transfer weight from plow to tractor should you need more traction. The number of times this will even be a factor with the H will be almost nil.

A lot of H's have pulled a lot of 2 bottom trailer plows over a lot of ground with no draft control transfer whatever. You will find yourself taking ocasional lift on plow with hitch, just to give you a bit more pull in the hard spots. If you were heading out to plow 100 acres, would be a different story. Go ahead and plan your plowing, you'll get on just fine.

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randy hall

02-08-2005 09:33:14




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to MattPage, 02-08-2005 07:30:41  
it should work fine for you. don't worry about hurting the tractor. when you pull a plow with a h or a m you pull off of the u shaped drawbar not the swinging drawbar, so your three point hitch would be anchored to the same part of the tractor as the drawbar, the axle housings.



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CNKS

02-08-2005 11:26:50




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to randy hall, 02-08-2005 09:33:14  
I have NEVER pulled off the U-shaped part, always the swinging part.



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bhb

02-08-2005 09:29:51




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to MattPage, 02-08-2005 07:30:41  
The cubs and A"s don"t have draft control, the depth is controlled by the point angle and how far the lift allows the plow to drop. I understand they are mounted at a different point but I don"t know if that would make that much difference.



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Novel Idea Guy

02-08-2005 07:52:09




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to MattPage, 02-08-2005 07:30:41  
The old drag plows didn't have automatic draft control either, to the best of my understanding. What you're basically missing without draft control is the tractor automatically controlling the depth of the plow as the soil conditions change. You can do this manually, but your plowing will look like $hit, and you'll be constantly running the hitch up and down. A depth wheel on the plow will help.

The problem with the add-on 3pt hitches is that they place a whole lot of stress on parts of the tractor that weren't designed for it. On an H, the drawbar is pulling from a point on the bottom of the transmission case. These add-on 3pt hitches put all the force on the axle housings, with a huge leverage advantage (i.e. twisting due to the drop-down bars for the 3pt arms).

Add-on 3pt hitches were meant for things like brush hogs, sprayers, log splitters, carrying platforms, even cultivators, not heavy tillage equipment.

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CNKS

02-08-2005 08:01:36




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to Novel Idea Guy, 02-08-2005 07:52:09  
I agree.



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Hugh MacKay

02-08-2005 09:58:58




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to CNKS, 02-08-2005 08:01:36  
CNKS: While I see your point, I think as you suggested below, it that hitch is kept tight a two bottom plow will not bother the H castings a whole lot. I once took a broken cast front wheel off a 300 to a welding shop. First thing shop owner said,"running with a front wheel loose, you know there is not a man alive, tough enough to stay on a Farmall long enough to break any castings as long as they are tight." He was right the wheel had been loose. Over the years since I've seen numerous broken castings on Farmalls. Other than the ones broken in collission situations and towing A's and C's, etc by front axle, I would have to agree with him. I have made a point of looking since when I see broken castings, and yes, I must agree other than exceptions I mentioned above I could readily see castings had been loose.

As for our friend plowing with after market 3 point on the H. He's not plowing half the county. His top link should give him good depth control. On the draft control end, he will not really need it pulling 2 bottoms with an H. A gauge wheel on plow will help. One has to remember when those H's were new it wasn't uncommon for guys to plow 50 to 150 acres per year with a two bottom little genius.

I once built a logging winch on the back of a Farmall 300. This clamped around axle just as the after market 3 points do. It was also placed high enough to lift slightly on logs, thus keeping them from digging in. A lot of the trees we pulled with this were 60 to 75 feet long. The load was winched in and pulled by the winch cable to destination. On turns with Canadian ring chains on tractor, I've seen these loads weighing up to 5 ton slide the rear wheels of 300 sideways 6'. We ran that on 300 for 5 years, modified it and mounted on 560. I think the 560 probably took a worse beating as it would pull almost twice the load 300 would. We never broke any castings.

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CNKS

02-08-2005 11:41:32




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-08-2005 09:58:58  
My point was to keep the mounting brackets tight. My C which did not have a 3 point when I bought it, has a badly worn place on one of the housings, where apparently something had run loose for years, have no idea what it was as I don't know the history of the tractor. It wasn't broken, just worn, I agree that you really have to screw up to break a casting. I was more concerned that the aftermarket 3-points, Saginaw or not, might not be as surdy, simply due to the way they have to be mounted. I grew up on an irrigated vegetable farm. To irrigate you have to have all the ridges and holes filled in or the water will never get across the field. Depth control in that situation did not depend on high and low places but only soil inconsistencies and wet and dry places. In that case, a slight raising or lowering of the mounted plow will take care of any problems, if there is no draft control. Except for the 8N/9N, draft control hadn't been invented when I was on the farm.

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Hugh MacKay

02-08-2005 14:24:06




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to CNKS, 02-08-2005 11:41:32  
CNKS: I knew very well what you were saying, basically just wanted to back you up for benefit of those who don't know. Keep those castings tight to one another and as well everything that bolts to them, and they will serve you well.



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CNKS

02-08-2005 07:45:36




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to MattPage, 02-08-2005 07:30:41  
Haven't read all the responses to your previous post, but you only need draft control for a plow. And even that does not prohibit you from using it, as stated in your original post, it depends on soil conditions, it may be ok. I would be most concerned about "overloading" the 3 point. Be sure the mounting brackets are kept tight, as it pulls only from the axle housings, factory 3 points are usually bolted to the rear end housing. Bush hog will be fine, disk also is ok as long as it is not too big for your tractor.

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Novel Idea Guy

02-08-2005 07:53:51




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to CNKS, 02-08-2005 07:45:36  
I'm wondering if you run braces from the 3PT attachement points to the drawbar attachment up under the transmission housing...



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CNKS

02-08-2005 08:00:35




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 Re: plowing with three point again... in reply to Novel Idea Guy, 02-08-2005 07:53:51  
I suppose you could, have not tried that, but, I don't plow with one.



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