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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch

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Migraine

02-05-2005 08:00:45




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After hours of troubleshooting this hydraulic nightmare' looks like she'll still have to come apart. Have completely taken the mcv pump and valves apart and found the good ol boys who put this thing together didn't have a clue about a 966. They put the wrong gasket in between the the inner plate and the valve body blocking half of the ports thus I had no steering and little brakes or TA. We put a new spring kit and a completely cleaned and serviced the valve body. All new oil and new pump at nearly 300 bucks OUCH and still have the awful whine at the pto drive gear. I believe they put the wrong drive gear on the clutch drive shaft since the book calls for a change at serial no 17000. Mine is a 14350 or 72 model and I guess there is a 1 tooth difference and a 3 degree angle difference on the teeth. When I put it together on Tues night I got oil all into the clutch housing and running everywhere so I'm guessing that they failed to put the oil seals on the shaft or have them in backwards. Then there is this new twist which I've never heard of before. When I took it outside for a short test, the steering came right to life, the brakes came to life and the TA worked fine for 3 or 4 times and then hesitated and started working in reverse. When I pull the lever back it shifts into high unless it is slipping on the high side and just feels like it is grabbing more solid on the low side . Anybody have some ideas or help here? I will win the war against this thing but it might have some pains along the way at least in the wallet. Thanks Migraine

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JJK

02-05-2005 23:08:51




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Migraine, 02-05-2005 08:00:45  
This is just a wild idea that I came up with while I was in bed not sleeping thinking how a TA can work backwards. When you pull the lever back does the control spool lift up? I'm thinking that maybe the pivot straight down from the lever might be on backwards. Like I said just a wild thought but you never know what kind of guy was working on this before. Sure hope you get this figured out so I can sleep better.

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Migraine

02-05-2005 18:51:07




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Migraine, 02-05-2005 08:00:45  
Just came out of the shop after working on the lady all day. Took it for one last test drive and loaded up the brakes in both sides of TA and could bring it to its knees with no slippage in either high or low. But the lever still activates it in reverse of normal. The very knowledgeable I.H. man who did the valve body spring and repair process is totally stumped by this one and he has done more than just a few TA, clutch and mcv repairs in his day on both 966 and 1066 models. Is it possible that the TA spool or something in that part of the valve body is in backwards or spring broken? The strange part is that in worked in the correct order for a few times after reassembly (maybe 4 or 5 shifts) and than started working backwards. Also we determined that the oil in the clutch housing is engine oil and the rear engine oil seal must have failed, so we can fix that while we have her apart. Notice I am not even calling her bad names yet. Thanks for all your help and replies. Migraine

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Aces

02-05-2005 12:50:29




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Migraine, 02-05-2005 08:00:45  
Migraine Sounds like you will need a parts book on this one because who knows what the last guy put in it, some people should not be given a wrench. As for the PTO drive gear the one reason for different gears would be the engine RPM. Now if there is just one tooth difference or if there is 100 teeth difference you can not change one of the gears without changing the other gear, but if there is just pressure angle change in the gears and the number of teeth are the same they might put the wrong gear in. That does not seam likly because there are not that many different angles to be used. But to just change one gear in tooth count and not change the other gear it cant be done.

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JJK

02-05-2005 09:35:04




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Migraine, 02-05-2005 08:00:45  
About the pto gear, there are 2 different gears, a 26 tooth, and a 28 tooth. Check at your local IH dealer with your model and serial # to see what one you should have. Also check the wear on the teeth of the pto driven gear making sure there is a hump on both sides and not flat on one side(this can cause gear noise). The TA shifting like that is a little strange. Hope the TA isn't fried after having the wrong gasket in the MCV. Just make sure that the TA is adjusted right (spool goes down to the snap ring and pulls all the way up), make sure the dump valve isn't stuck open (I had this happen) but if the lube light works you would have figured that out. You could put a guage on to check the pressure when shifting the TA to see if there could be a major leak (guage should drop just a little for a second and back to full pressure when shifting back and forth).
Don't feel bad if you split once for the clutch, put back together, and find you need to split again for the TA. This has happened before and its no fun. Best of luck to you on this one!

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Bob

02-05-2005 11:42:04




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to JJK, 02-05-2005 09:35:04  
The TRACTOR model and serial number have NOTHING to do with it, unless you KNOW the TA and PTO gear have never been changed. If someone in the past has played "mix and match" with the PTO gear and the TA, all bets are OFF as to what's REALLY in there, and it's WHAT'S REALLY IN THERE that counts, NOT "WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE IN THERE!



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JJK

02-05-2005 14:30:12




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Bob, 02-05-2005 11:42:04  
YA! I KNOW! NOW QUIT TALKING SO LOUD!

The only reason I say check and see what should be in there is then you know if someone screwed up before and that your gonna have a mess on your hands getting the right parts. So don't give me that blankety blank about model and serial # not meaning anything! Older stuff might not be as vital but the later the product the more important the serial #, tanny #, etc is.
I know this by experience, not by what I think.

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Bob

02-05-2005 14:44:13




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to JJK, 02-05-2005 14:30:12  
JJK, now I know why I was shouting, it's because you weren't listening!

Of course, the serial numbers ARE important, but the chance exists that someone in the past has scambled the parts, making them a mis-match with the serial number.

So, like Ronald Regan would have said, TRUST the serial numbers, but VERIFY the actual parts!

I've been wrenching on this stuff long enough that NOTHING that was done in a previous repair surprises me anymore!

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JJK

02-05-2005 15:07:16




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Bob, 02-05-2005 14:44:13  
Sorry I blew up at you. I know what your saying and can agree to that but do you see what I'm trying to get at? Other wise we'll just have to keep insulting each other and not help the poor guy out. I personally don't like doing that cause it just turns you into a craby old prune face. I think we can at least both agree that Migraine has a pretty good mess on his hands.



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Allan in NE

02-05-2005 15:40:05




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to JJK, 02-05-2005 15:07:16  
Aw Ha!

And all this time I thought I was getting old; what with all these wrinkles and all. Glad to know it is just the "prune" thing coming out in me. :>)

Learn something new every day 'round here. :>)

Allan



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Bob

02-05-2005 16:48:23




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Allan in NE, 02-05-2005 15:40:05  
Does SWMBO have her horses yet, Allen?



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Bob

02-05-2005 15:19:52




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to JJK, 02-05-2005 15:07:16  
I don't think were insulting each other. My skin is FAR too thick for that, after 23 years of marriage, and a group of teen-age boys in the house!

I felt particularly well-versed on this topic after working on a 706 about a year ago, where NOTHING in the TA area corresponded to the tractor serial number, and it had mis-matched gears.



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Migraine

02-05-2005 08:46:16




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Migraine, 02-05-2005 08:00:45  
Thanks guys for the ideas and tips. I have a splitting stand and a chain hoist and a extra pair of hands today so I should be ok. I think maybe I'll put a load on the TA with the brakes on the high side to see if it is holding or not . Off to the races. Migraine



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the tractor vet

02-05-2005 08:26:29




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Migraine, 02-05-2005 08:00:45  
Oh yea i should have told ya that when going back together it is a bunch easier to that the pressure plat and place it on the floor and use your heel and press each clutch finger down and install 1/4 inch nuts between the fingers and pressure plate cover to hold them down then place the cove on the input shaft then the disc on the shaft then slide the tractor back together that way you only have to line up the pilot bearing then go thru the inspection hole and install the cove bolts not to bad to do helps to clean the clutch housing out first that way ya don't have oil and grease running in your armpit. you can get one of them stubby troublelite up in there so you can seeand still have room to work. just bar the engine over thru the starter hole it helps if ya got one extra pair of hands but can be done by yourself. Just remember to remove the 1/4 inch nut when you are done.

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the tractor vet

02-05-2005 08:15:39




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Migraine, 02-05-2005 08:00:45  
Well since i am not there to give ya a hand and look things over myself i am not sure and have no idea what they did . Installing a T/A is not as stright foward as everybody thinks , Since they are all rebuilds and who knows what tractor the core came out of and just what parts were used that is why i always used Hy Capacity T/A assy. as they sent you everything that is needed and you used what they sent but like they always said check every thing before ya put it together and make sure that you set end play and space the shaft correctly and go thru the MCV with a new spring kit and set pressures and fallow the adjustments to the letter. A old customer of mine had someone else do a T/A on his 706 because i was off driving truck well he stopped by last evening and now it is lossen pressure on the low side and wants me to redo it now i have the time to do it and it will be done wright. And yes there are s/n breaks on PTO drives and them pesty seals can be a real PITA if not don wright i had a local machine shop make me up two seal drivers to install them and never had a problem since .

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Allan in NE

02-05-2005 08:37:00




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to the tractor vet, 02-05-2005 08:15:39  
Mornin' Doc,

What do you think about his T/A symptoms? Could it be that the T/A unit might still be plumb okay?

Seems odd that it would work fine for three or four shifts and then go to acting funny on the high side?

Thanks,

Allan



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the tractor vet

02-05-2005 09:53:25




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Allan in NE, 02-05-2005 08:37:00  
Have done a pressure test???? I like the pressure up around 275 and if ya go some seirous ponypower then 290 . When i do a T/A i go thru everything the first time as i don't like doing things twice it may take a littel longer the first time to be correct but that is why i did not have come backs and even the first T/A that i did over twenty years ago is just like the Energize Bunny it's still going. And that guy is not easy on that 1066.

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Allan in NE

02-05-2005 08:13:32




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 Re: 966...I Gotta split this baby today. Ouch in reply to Migraine, 02-05-2005 08:00:45  
Hi Migraine,

Ouch! That hurts!

But ya know what? It might not be as bad as you think, although I think you are right about the tractor needing splitting.

You might be right about the wrong gear and the shaft seals....check that PTO shaft bearing while you are there too.

But, I think you are slipping on the high side because of all that oil in there. Main clutch is slipping and will seem to "grab" on the low side because of the increased leaverage of the T/A.

Make any sense?

Allan

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