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706 rebuild update

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ChadS

02-01-2005 05:21:35




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Just wanted to say thanks, I built a sleeve puller like described in the last post on this,, and it worked very well. Got the sleeve all removed, and new ones installed. Used the freezer, and the hair dryer method, they dropped right in. I was looking at the head again, seen a valve was getting ready to burn again!!!!! Just had them recut last fall, but I guess they are burned to a crisp and have become brittle and chips away as time goes on. I ordered all new valves, springs clips etc etc. Should have it done this weekend if things go together smoothly. Thanks again! ChadS

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captaink

02-01-2005 11:36:10




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to ChadS, 02-01-2005 05:21:35  
Do your exhaust valves have “roto-caps” (valve rotators) on the exhaust valves? If so make sure that they are working. Their purpose (as suggested by their name) is to rotate the valves. This in theory helps break up any carbon that might get between the valve and seat, and continuously changes the orientation of the valve to the seat, diminishing the effects of a “hot spot” in the seat or a piece of carbon preventing the valve from contacting the seat and cooling properly. Either of which contributes to burned valves.

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El Toro

02-01-2005 07:50:16




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to ChadS, 02-01-2005 05:21:35  
Hi Chad, The Tractorvet is right using that 87 octane gasoline. I use the 89 octane in everything, I hear my neighbor's lawn mower
spark knocking on that 87 octane. Sounds like
the engine has a loose rod. When they used leaded
gas years ago you didn't have that problem with valves. That is unless the engine was running too lean.

Keep a check on the timing too. Hal

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the tractor vet

02-01-2005 06:52:49




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to ChadS, 02-01-2005 05:21:35  
Yep, cheep gas and the timming is not where it should be . I keep tryen to tell ya that ya have to use the 93 octain . We have been thru this on a couple of the ones that i have had and after seezen a fresh motor with 30 hours and .004 skirt to wall clearance because of 87 octain caused the piston to swell above the top ring because the 87 burns that much hotter then the 93 and all them exhust valves that went out the exhust pipe while on the feed grinder changed the gas after we got the report back from the lab and run what the book said to run and no more problems .

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caseyc

02-01-2005 10:54:18




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to the tractor vet, 02-01-2005 06:52:49  
i'm fighting a headgasket on my 706 now. just did it last year and it's out again. i run 89 octane w/ 10% ethanol. is that enough? i can't get 93 octane here let alone afford it. can i add lead to it? it has about 200 hours on it this summer baleing hay. any more help wold be great.

casey in SD



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the tractor vet

02-01-2005 13:46:21




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to caseyc, 02-01-2005 10:54:18  
I have had problems with this before with felpro gskt. as they are jusnk with there wood fiber cores . Not as much with the victors but have had to go to the diesel toqure spec and copper coat . As far as the gas thing read the book and it tells you that they need 93 min. and on the timming thing there it depends wheather it is a 263 or a 291 as they set differant and on the 291's they are a bit fussy on this , Nothing more then 23 degrees total and if someone put the wrong dist. ya got problems . I have run them at 24-25 degrees with the curb timming at +5 for quicker cold start and it also take out some stumbel but ya got to back up the total in the dist. and to to do that ya have to recurve .

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the tractor vet

02-01-2005 13:45:58




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to caseyc, 02-01-2005 10:54:18  
I have had problems with this before with felpro gskt. as they are jusnk with there wood fiber cores . Not as much with the victors but have had to go to the diesel toqure spec and copper coat . As far as the gas thing read the book and it tells you that they need 93 min. and on the timming thing there it depends wheather it is a 263 or a 291 as they set differant and on the 291's they are a bit fussy on this , Nothing more then 23 degrees total and if someone put the wrong dist. ya got problems . I have run them at 24-25 degrees with the curb timming at +5 for quicker cold start and it also take out some stumbel but ya got to back up the total in the dist. and to to do that ya have to recurve .

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captaink

02-01-2005 11:25:14




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to caseyc, 02-01-2005 10:54:18  
Do you hear a “ping” (slight knock) under load? If you do, that is a sign of ignition timing being set too far advanced and/or too low an octane fuel. The ethanol should help piston to run cooler since alcohol has fewer BTU’s per gallon than gasoline. It may not be enough though if you are hearing the “ping” when it is pulling. Check the timing. If it is right and still “pinging”, see if there is someone around that knows how to time an engine “by ear” as he might be able to get rid of the ping and save the engine by retarding the timing somewhat.

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caseyc

02-01-2005 13:05:04




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to captaink, 02-01-2005 11:25:14  
no it doesn't ping. just trying to eliminate some problems. had a IH mechanic that i trust help me tune it up before winter and in dec when i was cleaning barns and it slowly started to miss. compression test showed #5 at about 40psi. took the air compressor to the plug hole and it hissed out the gasket on the side. last year it blew out between #2 and #3. can't wait till next year to see where it blows next!

casey in SD

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captaink

02-01-2005 15:22:35




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to caseyc, 02-01-2005 13:05:04  
When you replaced the head gasket the last time was the head checked to make sure that it was not warped? The deck of the block occasionally gets warped also, but not nearly as often.



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caseyc

02-01-2005 20:33:21




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to captaink, 02-01-2005 15:22:35  
the head was completely rebuilt the first time(last winter), all new seats, guides, valves springs and it was milled. all CNH parts were used and the machine work was done at my local carquest which is the best darm machine shop in town. we use them for all our work(i work for the local ford/dodge dealer). basiclly there was NO expense spared in the first head job.

casey on SD



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ChadS

02-01-2005 10:06:02




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to the tractor vet, 02-01-2005 06:52:49  
Tractor Vet, You just told me what happened to this engine! Of all the damage done internally to this engine, 6 broken skirts, broken rings, burned valves, I was thinking it was ran out of oil, never had the air cleaner changed, dirt and particle damage ya know,, Thats what I thought happened. I forgot all about the detonation and preignition that happens in these engines, and now, I can show you proof, to back up what you say about what grade of gas to run in the IH 6 cyl. it looks like the pistons and sleeve were hot, well, they took a beating,,,, and for some time. ChadS

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the tractor vet

02-01-2005 14:09:13




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to ChadS, 02-01-2005 10:06:02  
Yep been there done that as i have been playen with them for over 25 years and have had every nut and bolt out of them at one time or other . Sold my buddy a 65 706 gasser when he was almost down and out and needed a tractor to get by with ( by the way he was Deere man) and he ran the bag off it for 10 years and one day he tryed to save some money by getting cheeper fuel and this fuel man told him that he had this here farm gas that would save his gas tractors as it had this here lead substatute and while he and i were grinding feed for miss piggy we hear the 706 start pulling down and i went to shut off the pto so it would pick back up and just as i went for the lever it missed a couple times and i saw a red hot pice come out the pipe and it was missen big time she ate #5 exhust valve ok it's time so pull head check head grind head install all guides replace three valves do three angel seats lap valves in put tractor back together two weeks later grinding pig feed again it eats #3 exhust valve then it take out #6 three weeks later . I got tired of pullen the head on this one he told me just to rebuild the whole tractor and we did i made it a 291 change everything rebuilt every thing and 30 hours after rebuild now mind ya 42 hours it scored all 6 because of the gas . We had that gas tested at a lab at the cost of over 700 bucks and that is when we found out that it was only 87 octain lacced with stail diesel fuel , now that we only use the 93 from another supplyer this tractor will run all day long pullen 4x16's in 1st high in corn ground at 8-10 inches of grind ear corn thru the small screen as fast as the drag can run it in and never miss a beat or pull down under 1900 . I am blowen my owen horn here but i would say that when it comes to the 706 it would take a real good wrench head to out do me.

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ChadS

02-01-2005 15:17:22




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to the tractor vet, 02-01-2005 14:09:13  
I can turn a wrench, but still learning as I go. I have a feeling, that when I tear down my 460, with a C-263, Ill find the same thing as I found in this one. Bad part about that is, I have to bore the block, it is a combine engine, and does not have sleeves. Been considering the 291 kit when I build the engine, that way it gives me the option to go out ot the 301 when the 291 wears out. Have heard the 291 is capable of 90 hp, or real close to it. Years ago, had built up a 656 to a 301, sure was a spunky tractor after that, very strong, ran pretty good, always ran 93 in it, it would not run on 87,,, would not even start up when it was new, it flooded it out, wet plugs, new engine, not even started yet. I did not like that at all, so poured some engine oil back down the spark plug hole, and let it soak overnite to get back in the rings. Had all new valves installed, ran for 7 years, now it pops head gaskets. that 656 was around 100 hp all day long! I had noticed you mentioned, if you have the wrong distributor in the IH 6 cyl, it will not run right. basicly, in my 460, it is from the combine, (403) Ive rebuilt the governor, distributor, carb, and tuned it all in on the dyno, bout 70-72 hp, on 93 octane. it hates working below 2000 engine rpm, has big carb, intake, and gets lots of fuel, still hesitates,,,,, when the engine is suddenly accelerated, even with MSD ignition. Valves are ok, not leaking, or burned. What is the distributor I should be looking for for this? Thanks for all the great info you have given me, sure will be a preventative matenence in the future. ChadS

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the tractor vet

02-01-2005 15:45:37




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to ChadS, 02-01-2005 15:17:22  
Will as far as no. go i have no idea as i do dist. by the timming curve for that engine on the strobe. at the RPM for the amount of advance .



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caseyc

02-01-2005 14:53:29




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to the tractor vet, 02-01-2005 14:09:13  
can i add an octane boost to the gas? as i stated in an above post i do not have access to 93 octane gas. there is not a gas station or coop around that deals it. i'm in 89 octane w/ 10% ethanol county here! my only other two choices are 87 octane or E-85. your not helping my moral!

casey in SD



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the tractor vet

02-01-2005 15:50:50




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to caseyc, 02-01-2005 14:53:29  
Ya can't get the junk out of a can to boost it as we have already been there done that and figure out how much it adds to the cost per gal. and you will find out that it is cheeper just to by it at the gas station , but try and find gas that does not have alkehol or mtb or mtd as this is not good gas as if any of this stuff is all the extra stuff will lean out the burn and always remamber that lean is mean and this is what leads to burnt valves scoored liners and melted pistons.

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Lance R.

02-01-2005 06:47:40




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 Re: 706 rebuild update in reply to ChadS, 02-01-2005 05:21:35  
I was told that valve seats should be replaced whenever doing a rebuild. This was a particular problem with D-282 engines. Maybe it had something to do with the burnt valve and I think it can effect compression. I'm not an expert but just relaying info I was given.



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