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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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CNH/Fiat?

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PAULIH300

01-24-2005 16:08:07




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I read that CNH agricultural is owned by Fiat in Italy,and they currently are on the throwes of death....hoping a partnership with GM (that GM is now trying to get out of)is going to save them.Question is...is this the same CNH that owns Case/IH? If so...is its future in doubt? GM claims a "put" option is invalid,while Fiat claims GM needs to purchase 90% of Fiat thanks to a prior agreement.
I'm confused on this...could this be the end of those who acquired IH?

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Hugh MacKay

01-25-2005 05:04:12




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 Re: CNH/Fiat? in reply to PAULIH300, 01-24-2005 16:08:07  
Paul: Do I sence the possibility you may have some concerns about parts supply in future? Or is it you just want to enlighten yourself on some history? CNKS has given you quite a decent sequence of events. I strongly suggest you take a look at the book, " A Corperate Tragety". Another good book that will give you the history of IH from the beginning is, " 150 years of International Harvester by CH Wendel. Wendel delves into all the companies that came together from the days of Cyrus McCormick in the 1830s right through to what we know as IH in the 1970s. This book is 413 pages of 80% photos of product line from the beginning. Many of the early ones are drawings only as old Cyrus did come before photos were common. You may have problems finding this book as it is now out of print.

If your concern is parts in future, I wouldn't worry too much. Pre 1980s IH and Deere tractors still out number anything out there and still in use. I predict there will be a parts supply for them longer than tractors built since 1980. With that kind of volume, someone will make parts.

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PAULIH300

01-24-2005 17:55:48




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 Re: CNH/Fiat? in reply to PAULIH300, 01-24-2005 16:08:07  
What is the ownership history of IH? From the inception of the merger that led to the new name "International Harvester",to the Tenneco buyout...who really owned IH in between?



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CNKS

01-24-2005 18:30:54




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 Re: CNH/Fiat? in reply to PAULIH300, 01-24-2005 17:55:48  
IH was owned by the McCormick family, (along with Deering, until sometime in the 40's) until it was aquired by Tenneco, who merged it with Case and later spun it of as an independent company. Details get fuzzy to me after that, but somewhere along the line they were aquired by Fiat, who also aquired New Holland (formerly Ford) and merged the two companies and called it Case New Holland or CNH. New Holland and Case-IH are still separate divisions, but the new "Farmalls" are really red New Hollands, probably similarities between the larger Case-IH and New Holland tractors also. As part of the deal to aquire New Holland the McCormick name had to be sold, thus the McCormick tractors made at the Doncaster plant in England, which are also similar to the Case-IH tractors. This is only a mild scrambling of what happened, someone else can give all the gory details.

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CNKS

01-24-2005 18:41:03




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 Re: CNH/Fiat? in reply to CNKS, 01-24-2005 18:30:54  
I said "owned by the McMormick family". It was actually owned by the stockholders, the CEO was "usually" a McCormick, there were couple of CEO's who weren't. The last McCormick to be CEO of IH was Brooks McCormick, who talked the CEO of Xerox, McCafferty, into taking the CEO's position, while Brooks remained on the board of directors. IMO, this accelerated the demise of IH and the rest is history. Details are in the book "A Corporate Tragedy", by Barbara Marsh. The book is somewhat biased against the corporate management of IH, but is probably mostly true.

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George 2

01-24-2005 17:47:35




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 Re: CNH/Fiat? in reply to PAULIH300, 01-24-2005 16:08:07  
Guys, lets not panic. Yes Fiat automobile manufacturing is losing money, but the Fiat trucks, construction equipment and Case New Holland is making good money. The Fiat company is trying to divest it's money losing automobile business onto General Motors via the PUT option they have with GM. It appears that Fiat management don't see the automobile business as having any long term profit potential and as such they are trying to enforce the effective sale to GM. What is worrisome is that if GM get's out of it unscathed, what is Fiat going to do with the automobile business to make it profitable. Whatever method is pursued, one thing is sure and that is a huge writedown on the automobile assets will occur. As for AGCO, there is no way they could get hold of CNH due to the restrictive anti trust laws that exist in the United States and the European Union. The most likely scenario is a huge writedown of the automobile asset and one of the Asian automobile companies buying up the asset for a song, shutting down the factories and then building the same cars in Asia for about half the cost with non unionized labor. The Fiat automobile workers then lose their jobs and the Fiat investors lose their shirts on share value.

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CNKS

01-24-2005 17:39:49




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 Re: CNH/Fiat? in reply to PAULIH300, 01-24-2005 16:08:07  
Those rumors have been around for several years, if Fiat collapses, then it won't be a rumor, no use even thinking about it.



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twopop

01-24-2005 16:26:00




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 Re: CNH/Fiat? in reply to PAULIH300, 01-24-2005 16:08:07  
yes CNH is owned by fiat,yes theyre in trouble,probably agco will buy CNH



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PAULIH300

01-24-2005 16:38:39




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 Re: CNH/Fiat? in reply to twopop, 01-24-2005 16:26:00  
Talk about consolidation!
That would leave what 2 or 3 major tractor companies? Yikes!

To think our IH/Farmalls have a lineage tied into the Yugo! (which was an old Fiat 128 design).
Who woulda thunk it back in the 50s?



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