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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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The H that would be a B

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cbox

01-20-2005 22:33:58




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I posted a message here a couple of weeks ago about my Farmall H that sounds like a JD B. Based on the helpful suggestions received here I changed spark plugs, spark plug wires, checked the distributor thoroughly and checked the compression on each of the cylinders. They consistently measure 85-90. No cylinders are lower than that range. The fuel filters are cleaned as is the sediment bowl. Hooked everything back up and started it. Started hard and still sounds like my JD B with black smoke and the occasional flame up through the stack. Still has zero power. I'm looking for more suggestions. What do I do next please.

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Wayne Peterson

01-22-2005 11:25:33




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  


I would guess you cracked the coil. Start it at night in pitch black, you will probably see arcing between the side terminals and the primary. If so, you need a new coil. Good luck.



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kfox

01-21-2005 20:28:13




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
I just went through the same problem yesterday. The first time I've really needed my old H since I got it, and it wouldn't start. The temp was in mid 30s, and I started it when it was below zero with no problem. To make a long story short, the distb. had moisture in it, and the points needed cleaned, then it started and ran just like you said yours did. I had put a jumper across the resistor so the coil would have 12 volts for starting, and when it started it was very sick. It tooke me a while to remember to remove the jumper. Then it smothed out and ran like a sewing machine. If you have a 6 volt coil without a stepdown resistor, that could be the problem. Just a thought...ken

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P Backus

01-21-2005 14:55:59




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
All have good sugestions. Still, it wouldn't have gone out of time while using it. One remote posibility could be if the timing gear on the camshaft lost a tooth it would screw up valve timing and ignition timing. Probably wouldn't run at all then. Also, you didn't mention what ignition system you have. The after market Delco system (verticle) has a gearset in it too. Could be it skipped a tooth. Otherwise check the carb like you said. E-mail me when you know more about it, I'm curious.
Paul

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Too Far Gone

01-21-2005 21:39:51




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to P Backus, 01-21-2005 14:55:59  
Hey,If you cant find anything else wrong at all.On my 400 one time the timing gear on the distributor drive got loose when the key that holds it wore out and got loose,and that will severely throw things off.Just a thought.



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cbox

01-21-2005 15:25:08




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to P Backus, 01-21-2005 14:55:59  
Your response makes me very curious. On occasion the starter won't turn over at all even when the battery is fully charged. When that happens I simply remove the starter motor, act like I'm doing something meaningful, put it back on and the thing starts right up - at least it used to. I never thought that would have anything to do this but your message suggested it may . . ..



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RustyFarmall

01-21-2005 17:26:36




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-21-2005 15:25:08  
The reason your starter sometimes will not turn the engine over is because of worn teeth on the starter drive and/or the flywheel. In certain spots the starter drive "binds-up" with the teeth on the flywheel. Loosening the bolts on the starter will allow the teeth to "un-bind", and then everything is fine again, at least for a while. Your starter problems are unrelated to the running problem.



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jayw

01-21-2005 14:35:26




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
My 41 H did this same thing after I had it almost complete and it turned out too be a bad silicone plug wire it wasnt firing thru at all It drove me nuts till a old timer said put new wires on so I grabed the Old ones I had and put them on at darned it ran smooth as silk We all tend to overlook plug wires sometimes.



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RustyFarmall

01-21-2005 14:21:55




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
If you are getting BLACK smoke I would venture a guess that the engine is NOT starving for fuel. I still think the problem is in the ignition timing. It needs to be advanced to make it run. I experienced the same exact symptoms on my M after totally rebuilding the distributor. Even though I was careful to make reference marks so the distributor would go back in just like it came out, the new gears in the dist. made enough differance so that it was really out of time.

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Onefarmer

01-22-2005 15:09:35




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to RustyFarmall, 01-21-2005 14:21:55  
Sorry missed the bit about the black smoke. It is possible for the H to make black and still run lean. If there was a vacuum leak on either the front or rear two cylinders, the mixture could be rich on the other two to make black smoke. I had this happen on my M. The manifold was cracked bad and just wanted to get by till I could get a new one. Of course the mixture would need to richened to do this and probly not in this case.

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onefarmer

01-21-2005 13:15:23




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
Cracked intake manifold or a gasket that went bad? Two cyclinders running lean will cause that miss. Get some carb cleaner and spray it in places around the manifold, carb to manifold gasket, mainfold to head gasket. If it runs better in any certain area you found a place to look for vacuum leak.



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captaink

01-21-2005 11:54:14




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
With that kind of compression and the fact that it started all of a sudden I’d be looking at the distributor cap. It could be cracked, have a carbon trail in it, or just have moisture in it. If you haven’t replaced it yet, I’d do it.

If that doesn’t cure it, it might a bad intake gasket or loose junction on the gasket between the intake and the carburetor.



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dej(JED)

01-21-2005 09:59:08




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
Check the valves.



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cbox

01-21-2005 08:24:03




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check the wires. One of the confusing elements of this is that the tractor was running fine and literally while I was pulling a wagon it started to "miss" and within a few minutes it was losing power etc. I haven't been able to get it back to "purring" since then. The carb has good fuel flow through it etc. I've tried slowly rotating the distributor. Could it be something else with the carb?

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P Backus

01-21-2005 10:37:53




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-21-2005 08:24:03  
I didn't know it was running good before either. Will it idle, but misses under power? If so, then I'd say that there is something in the bottom of the tank that allows the gas to flow slowly, but not fast enough for load conditions. If it doesn't start or idle well either , then maybe a valve (valves) is stuck open, as mentioned. Check compression, and drain carburetor on bottom. Black smoke? Flooding? Let us know.
Paul

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cbox

01-21-2005 10:52:29




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to P Backus, 01-21-2005 10:37:53  
It doesn't idle well either. Starts hard and starts coughing immediately. I have to pull the choke out to get it going. Used to start without any trouble at all on the first or second turn. I have checked the compression and it is consistent across all 4 cylinders. I'll check the fuel system next. Probably time to take the carb off and see what is going on in there. Fuel drains well out of the bottom of the carb now but there may be something stuck inside. Tomorrow's project . . .

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Andy Martin

01-21-2005 09:08:53




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-21-2005 08:24:03  
New information!

It's not going to be your wires.

Sounds like fuel to me.

Does the choke help any?

Fuel will drain into the carburetor and make it look like it is getting fuel when the line is partially plugged. Drain fuel from the carburetor for 1 minute or more.

You may have something floating around in the fuel tank that only plugs the flow after you use a fair amount of fuel.



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P Backus

01-21-2005 08:00:21




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
I think Andy and gene are on the right track. The firing order is 1-3-4-2, and if the distributor rotates opposite of what you are thinking, 2 and 3 would be wrong. I made that mistake on my 600 diesel, because the diesel distributor rotates opposite from the gas motor.
Paul



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RustyFarmall

01-21-2005 07:16:52




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
Loosen the distributor and start advancing the timing, go slow with it, just a little at a time. Pay no attention to any timing marks etc. I am betting the engine will start running smoother and will soon sound just like an H should sound, instead of that nasty popping and belching.



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Andy Martin

01-21-2005 07:51:22




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to RustyFarmall, 01-21-2005 07:16:52  
I'd be careful doing that. I've never had one not time well statically. You can't use a timing light on one because the timing mark is for static timing (unless you put on your own mark).

If advancing the distributor improves operation over the static timed position, then the centrifugal advance may not be working. If you crank start your tractor, you don't want it advanced past the right static timing, and it is hard on starters.

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RustyFarmall

01-21-2005 14:12:47




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to Andy Martin, 01-21-2005 07:51:22  
To each his own I guess but I have always timed them by ear. When you grow up driving these old tractors you just instinctively know what they should sound like when everything is "right". Also, static timing will not compensate for wear in the distributor.



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gene (Missouri)

01-20-2005 23:15:45




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to cbox, 01-20-2005 22:33:58  
Check the firing order of the plug wires - could have two wires crossed.



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Andy Martin

01-21-2005 05:23:40




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 Re: The H that would be a B in reply to gene (Missouri), 01-20-2005 23:15:45  
What he is saying is that the rotor bug may be turning the opposite direction to what you think.

Most of us have crossed two opposite wires and they run like you said. A lot better than you'd think.



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