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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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8v Alternator

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Chip

01-18-2005 21:18:08




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Could I take a 12v delco alternator with built in regulator, CUT one of the three tabs off diode trio and then it will make 8 volts. BUT?? how long will it last?? Any other problems?? Probably is, otherwise you'd be doing it to replace the 6volt generator on a Super M. If I go to a 12volt is there a smaller alternator out there that fits better?? Possibly off a compact tractor like a denso etc.??

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Pete L

01-20-2005 07:39:38




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 Re: 8v Alternator in reply to Chip, 01-18-2005 21:18:08  
Had similar questions recently on my Dad's Ford NAA. Replaced the 6 & 8 gauge cables to the battery and starter with 1 gauge, along with a new battery, and what a difference !



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Doug in OR

01-19-2005 08:30:36




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 Re: 8v Alternator in reply to Chip, 01-18-2005 21:18:08  
The others have all said it well. Bob M captured what everyone said in a nutshell. I would either fix the 6 volt system and use it that way, or switch completely to 12 volts. Doing otherwise will give you a cobbled-up system. To me, I've always considered 8 volts to be a partial fix for a 6 volt system that isn't installed/maintained correctly. You run into other problems with 8 volts too, including shortened point and lamp life. You'd need a unique-sized ballast resistor, to say the least.

As for alternators, a Delco will fit nicely under the hood of an M. The fit is a bit more difficult for an H, from what I've heard. Yes, you can go with the Hitachi or Nippondenso alternators. Accomodating the wiring is easy - the terminals are labeled a bit differently, that's all. I'm not familiar with the Ford (Motorcraft) alternators, so I can't give you advice on installing one of those. Otherwise, go with whatever you can find.

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Bob M

01-19-2005 07:21:45




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 Re: 8v Alternator in reply to Chip, 01-18-2005 21:18:08  
Good point Norm!

Taking it a step farther, unless you’ve “hot rodded” your tractor with an LP head, high compression pistons and maybe a stoker crank, the stock 6 volt system will roll and start a Super M with no difficulty.

Key is to use the largest CCA rating 6 volt battery that will fit in the box, use 1/0 or heavier battery cables, keep the starter in good shape and keep all the cranking current connections bright and clean.

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Chip

01-19-2005 07:55:45




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 Re: 8v Alternator in reply to Bob M, 01-19-2005 07:21:45  

Allready put some new cables on from the battery to starter and frame, BIG cables off a semi truck. WOW what a improvement. Thanks



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Norm in Alabama

01-19-2005 06:12:40




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 Re: 8v Alternator in reply to Chip, 01-18-2005 21:18:08  
Something that doesn't seem to get mentioned here is having the generator rewound to 12volts at an Auto Electric shop. They even have the regulators for the rewound generators. I am going to do that as part of the restoring of my SMV.



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Gerald J.

01-19-2005 07:38:30




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 Re: Rewind the generator? in reply to Norm in Alabama, 01-19-2005 06:12:40  
Been there, done that. Learned later it was a total waste of effort.

In a constant speed situation, rewind is the proper action but it cuts the current capability in half.

Where the shaft speed of the generator can be increased (by reducing the size of the generator pulley or by opening the tractor throttle more) all it takes to get 12 volts from a 6 volt generator is a 12 volt regulator.

If you hold the field at 6 volts you will have to double the shaft speed to get 12 volts. And that 12 volts will have the same current capability as the generator did at 6 volts. Double the watts.

If you let the field voltage rise to 12 volts a perfect generator would only need a 41% rise in shaft speed to put out 12 volts. But the speed will need to be more because the field core saturates, probably at less than 12 volts on the coils. The field coils will be dissipating 4 times the power on 12 volts and so the frame will run hotter. 12 volt field coils and the original armature would be a cooler operation, though I've run a 12 volt generator at 24 volts for hours at a time holding it in my hands without it getting too hot to hold.

As said below, 6 volts cared for properly cranked the tractor for 40 or 50 years, going to 12 volts isn't better. An aged 6 volt starter needs bearings and brushes. Probably a new solenoid with clean contact surfaces and the battery wires need to be substantial, nothing from Walmart. 1/0 is a nice size with cleaned battery posts (more often needed at 6 volts than at 12) and all the other connections cleaned. Used to be in a 6 volt car that battery posts needed cleaning about twice a year. In those days my dad insisted on scraping them with a knife blade until the post (and cable end) shined. The modern wire brush doesn't quite achieve that shine but helps a great deal and keeps them more round than my pocket knife ever did.

Gerald J.

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Andy Martin

01-19-2005 08:28:52




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 Cleaning Battery Posts in reply to Gerald J., 01-19-2005 07:38:30  
Lisle makes a mill for battery posts and cable terminals that works great. It is a tapered plastic handle about 4-inches long with four stainless steel blades. They are sharp and at the angle for posts and terminals. You stick the four blades in the terminal and twist it to shear off the high points. It will mill out a very good conical shape inside the terminal. Same thing outside the post.

The wire brushes just take off the soft parts where the mill straightens it all up.

It is expensive, maybe $10 at auto parts stores.

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Bob M

01-19-2005 04:06:13




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 Re: 8v Alternator in reply to Chip, 01-18-2005 21:18:08  
Forget about cutting a diode lead! If you do the the alternator will "single phase" - it'll will still produce 12 volts, but it's current output capacity will be reduced by 2/3. And if run this way for long it could cause the stator windings to burn out.

Like Bob mentions below only way to change an alternator's voltage is to change the regulator. There's outfits that sell 6 volt (and probably also 8 volt) retrofit regulators. However if you are going to the trouble to install an alternator, keep it simple and convert the rest of the system to 12 volts. At most you need to change 3 lamp bulbs and add a ballast resistor - all together will probably cost less than an 8 volt regulator!

Incidentally there's PLENTY of room under a Super M hood for a Delco alternator...

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Andy Martin

01-19-2005 05:39:08




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 Re: 8v Alternator in reply to Bob M, 01-19-2005 04:06:13  
There is room, but with a Jap alternator you can also adjust the belt tension. I have a SMLP that came with one and it is a nice installation.



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Bob

01-18-2005 21:53:47




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 Re: 8v Alternator in reply to Chip, 01-18-2005 21:18:08  
The VOLTAGE REGULATOR in the alternator determines the output voltage. DON'T start chopping up the diodes!

There are a number of aftermarket regulators available to make these alternators do things GM never intended! Do you need 8 Volt positive ground? Somebody PROBABLY makes a regulator for that, but you'd have to change the rectifier to get positive ground AND the regulator to get the correct voltage.

If you want a SMALL 12 Volt alternator, search the archives for Toyota or Nippondenso. Part numbers have been posted in the past!

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