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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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460/C221

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CNKS

01-17-2005 13:32:03




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Took my block, head, and crank to the local machine shop. Machinist says the engine was first produced about 1939, his books call it both a 220 and a C221, says it was not a truck engine (I'm not sure about that, but know even less about IH truck engines). A quick scan of Guy Fays data book reveals a 298 cu in 6, bore and stroke completely different, used in the 40 series. Is the 221/263 etc a descendant of this engine? If not where was this block first used? I don't have any data on the IH crawlers of that era.

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JonT

01-17-2005 20:48:38




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 Re: 460/C221 in reply to CNKS, 01-17-2005 13:32:03  
Those engines evolved from the Silver Diamond engines first produced in 1949 in the L-110 through L-150 trucks. They replaced the flathead Green Diamond engine which was a waukesha design that International purchased. The Black Diamond is an improved Silver Diamond.



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CNKS

01-18-2005 07:34:56




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 Re: 460/C221 in reply to JonT, 01-17-2005 20:48:38  
Thank's I will accept that it was originally a truck engine -- you are saying that International truck engines prior to 1949 were all flatheads?



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JonT

01-18-2005 10:02:00




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 Re: 460/C221 in reply to CNKS, 01-18-2005 07:34:56  
Only the lighter trucks, KB-1 through KB-5 or maybe 6, used the Green Diamond which was flat head. The next size up, Blue Diamond, was valve-in-head, as was the Red Diamond.



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Aces

01-17-2005 15:41:12




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 Re: 460/C221 in reply to CNKS, 01-17-2005 13:32:03  
CNKS I think the engine very much like what was in the pickups.



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CNKS

01-17-2005 18:01:02




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 Re: 460/C221 in reply to Aces, 01-17-2005 15:41:12  
I have heard that -- the guy said no, he has been at that business for 30 years and has seen about everything -- but he could be wrong.



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K.B.-826

01-17-2005 18:24:25




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 Re: 460/C221 in reply to CNKS, 01-17-2005 18:01:02  
CNKS, the way I understand it, the C-221, C-263, C-291, C-301, D-236, D-282, and D-301 family of tractor/combine engines evolved from the Black Diamond family of truck engines. I know absolutly nothing about IH trucks, so I can't tell you when the Black Diamonds were first produced. I doubt that the C-221 as you and I know it was in production in 1929. If you ever get the chance, look at some parts books for older combines. You'll see that many of them entered production with Black Diamond engines, but were switched to C-221's and C-263's in about 1958.

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CNKS

01-17-2005 18:42:59




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 Re: 460/C221 in reply to K.B.-826, 01-17-2005 18:24:25  
KB, I've read what you said somewhere before, I'll ask him when he's done, thanks.



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K.B.-826

01-17-2005 18:26:50




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 Re: 460/C221 in reply to K.B.-826, 01-17-2005 18:24:25  
Sorry, meant to say "I doubt it was it production in 1939", instead of 1929.



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CNKS

01-17-2005 19:03:20




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 Re: 460/C221 in reply to K.B.-826, 01-17-2005 18:26:50  
I found one article related to what you said, will look for more. Reference to the engine is in the 2nd paragraph.



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