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Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine.

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The Red

11-27-1999 14:30:12

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Hey you guys are sharp. I have thrown in my 2 cents in the H area and now I need your help. I am getting almost no response on the harvesting.com board/Deere page. The Tales guys are trying their best and actually being serious. THAT'S DANGEROUS! :)

Some of you know I bought a JD 4400 combine. It has a Chevy 292 straight 6 gas engine. I am trying to get this daggone thing running so I can get the combine shipped to the farm.

I have the fuel system working now all the way through the carburetor with lots of new parts, rebuilt carb, etc. Carb is a Bendix Zenith carburetor which is slightly more complicated then an H carb, but not by much.

The problem is in the timing and I am completely stumped. The 292 is just like an H or an M. The timing mark is on the crankshaft belt pulley. So when #1 piston is up at the top on compression cycle, the pulley mark should line up with the block marker. This 292 pulley IS NOT lining up at all. When the pulley mark is lined with the block mark, the piston is DOWN. I would have to think the pulley is keyed like on an H or M.

Any thoughts? Don't confuse anything with the camshaft because the timing mark is not on the cam assembly.

It did do a bunch of backfiring today after I lined up the distributor to the number 1 post with #1 piston up at the top on compression stroke. Its very easy to tell which valve is exhaust vs. intake since there are 2 seperate manifolds. Its like the H. exhaust, intake, intake, exhaust, right down the line.

Any help would be appreciated. Fire questions and I will fire back. This is making Corey's H project look like a piece of cake.

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Jim Stubler

05-16-2002 23:12:42

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

I'm trying to find a power steering bracket for my 1970 chevy p/u with a 292...Thanks Jim...

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DANIEL

04-29-2002 19:31:45

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

You might not be able to go by the timing marks on the pulley. Put your #1 cylinder top dead center, make sure that when you do that both valves are closed. If not, then cam is off. If so, then just set your distributor to the #1 plug. After you do this, make sure that you reset your points. You may also have a condenser problem. Also check your points to make sure that they aren't sticking. Hope this helps! let me know.

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ltf in nc

11-29-1999 15:16:20

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

Red,
You are working on the easy part designed by GM. Just wait to you have all the fun replacing the bearings in the awkward to get at parts designed by John Deere. If you are into further self abuse, I have a propane conversion for your machine that is yours if you will arrange for shipping.

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flynn43@msn.com

06-17-2005 21:25:39

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engi in reply to ltf in nc, 11-29-1999 15:16:20

i am very interested in the 292 propane conversion if you have stuff for it laying about feel free to e mail me and we can discuss me buying it

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The Red

11-30-1999 06:23:46

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to ltf in nc, 11-29-1999 15:16:20

Thanks ltf but I will pass on the propane conversion. I noticed that on the toggle switch in the cab.

Oh I know this project will be one huge challenge. Gives me an excuse to write another article.

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jakee

11-29-1999 14:50:19

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

red do we have THE GREEN MONSTER running yet?

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The Red

11-30-1999 06:21:40

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to jakee, 11-29-1999 14:50:19

Sorry jakee. Haven't paged back this far until now. No sir but its close. It was firing on 3 or so on Sunday but not enough to sustain it. I am going to stick in new spark plugs to eliminate a possible dead plug and maybe get a new cable for the battery to starter solenoid. That may help speed up the cranking a tad.

Next attempt will be Thursday. Indy forecast is for sunny and 55 Thursday afternoon.

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jakee

11-30-1999 12:43:48

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Re: Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-30-1999 06:21:40

use to work some races in indy for NHRA at speedyway city year,s ago.

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The Red with Sunday's Followup and a BIG THANK YOU!

11-28-1999 11:33:49

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

You guys were a great help. pulled the plugs and valve cover. Shot some oil into each cylinder and did some cranking. When #6 was between exhaust and intake, I checked the pistons in 1 and 6 and both were at or near the top. I then set the distributor platform accordingly. It was interesting that the #1 post is where it was last weekend. Someone had pulled that distributor before. Got a great spark on the points BTW.

Put Humpty back together again and she was firing on 3 of 6 or so, but not enough to keep it going without the starter. I made 12 attempts with 20 cranks per attempt or so then the batteries gave out. It was only 46 in Indy. If it had been 70, it would be running albeit rough.

Appreciate the help. We are in a cold spell for this week so it will be next weekend before I give it it's next shot.

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jakee

11-28-1999 12:22:29

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red with Sunday's Followup and a BIG THANK YOU!, 11-28-1999 11:33:49

if that outer ring has sliped on the balencer,make sure you dont run it long because it will be running out of balance.

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The Red

11-28-1999 12:36:41

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Re: Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to jakee, 11-28-1999 12:22:29

Good point jakee. It is a good 180 degrees out so I won't be putting much RPM on it once it is running. I wonder if I can loosen the 3 small bolts on that pulley face and rotate that outer ring back to its correct position?

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highboyford

11-28-1999 15:43:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-28-1999 12:36:41

I wouldnt do that rubber falls apart enough without help I would run price a new one or look in a junkyard for another,its only your bearings we are talking about.

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JRM

11-28-1999 19:36:06

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to highboyford, 11-28-1999 15:43:02

I doubt that you could spin it back and get it in the exact spot. That should be a very common and very inexpensive balancer at a boneyard. When they are removed incorrectly or spun, they can come apart creating a rather dangerous situation.

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The Red

11-29-1999 01:57:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to JRM, 11-28-1999 19:36:06

Someone mentioned about having one come apart in a Camaro and doing quite a bit of damage.

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Corky

11-28-1999 04:53:42

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

Red I would agree with some of the other posts.Make sure you are up on #1 compression then make sure your distributor is on #1 for the moment ignore the timing mark and DO NOT turn the balancer unless you use a socket on the crank bolt in the center.That balancer is attached by rubber if you turn it with your hands it will slip and your timing mark wont mean anything.That should get it started.Also as previously stated you more than likely have a nylon timing gear on your timing chain if that is the case replace it now.Will be the best 20 bucks you invest in that chevy motor.Good luck

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The Red

11-28-1999 05:21:51

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to Corky, 11-28-1999 04:53:42

Thanks Corky. I got an email from Ralph Thompson. That pulley is composed of an inner ring, rubber, and an outer ring which has the timing mark. When we broke the motor loose 3 or 4 weeks ago, we probably spun the pulley a bit. We were probably lucky to get the engine broke loose.

I will go through the timing procedure again this afternoon. New plug wires might help. I wouldn't be surprise if 3 or 4 of the old wires are deader than a Deere.

This engine has steel timing gears since it is industrial. Thanks for the thoughts.

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red Iv got it dear man

11-27-1999 20:44:20

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

You need to put a picture of your h in the cab and then put the I.H sticker on the engine valve cover I am pretty sure this will fix your problems.If it doesnt bring history of I.H book along have a wrenchbender do a cleansing of the evil JD spirts.

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The Red ROFL!

11-28-1999 03:43:17

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to red Iv got it dear man, 11-27-1999 20:44:20

Now that is an excellent solution!

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Bob M

11-27-1999 19:40:38

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

Hey John - One more possibility: Some GM engines of that era (don't know if that includes the 292) have cam sprockets made of fiber. Have seen where the teeth wear and chain stretches enough that the camshaft still turns, but keeps slipping a tooth or two per revolution. Will drive you nuts attempting to time it.

May be worth removing the harmonic balancer and timing chain cover for a peek inside...

Bob M

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Greg

11-27-1999 17:02:43

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

Firing order,,, 1 5 3 6 2 4

15 is to young 36 is to old 24 is just right

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The Red

11-28-1999 04:28:05

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to Greg, 11-27-1999 17:02:43

Greg, that is what is stamped on the manifold and in the operators manual. So we are in agreement on that variable. Thanks

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highboyford

11-27-1999 20:37:09

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to Greg, 11-27-1999 17:02:43

heard that before fellow in his 50s learned it in engine school.

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MrG: That's cute...

11-27-1999 19:32:07

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to Greg, 11-27-1999 17:02:43

I never heard of one, but I'm sure a guy come up with gingle for small blocks, but till they do, I have 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 emblazoned in my memory!

Any of you electronics wizards remember the gingle for the color code on resistors?

Bad
Boys
Rape
Our Young Girls Behind the
Village Garden Wall - Get Some Now

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Wayne

11-28-1999 02:36:19

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Re: Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to MrG: That's cute..., 11-27-1999 19:32:07

yup Aviation electricians mate school.

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ltf in nc

11-27-1999 16:57:29

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

Remember me, we chatted prior to making your purchase. Since we don't know much history on this engine, lets just make in run and go from there. Forget about the timing marks. Remove the valve cover and the distributor cover. Rotate the engine (direction of normal running/cranking) and verify that ALL valves are moving. Bring no. 1 cylinder up on the compression stroke. Shake both exhaust and intake rockers to see that they are off the cam and thus have clearance. Verify that the no. 1 wire from the distributor is on the plug in no. 1. Look to see if the distributor rotor button is lined up with the no. 1 location on the distributor cap. If it is not pull the distributor and reinstall it until it does. The distributor will initially have to be started back into the hole a little off from the desired final location as the gear will cause a small amount of rotation of the distributor as it seats. Leave the distributor locking tab loose so that you can rotate(advance and/or retard) the distributor as you crank the engine. It should run. Good luck, owning this green beast you will need it.

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Greg Martin

11-27-1999 16:57:19

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

Did you pull the dist.?? I have seen harmonic balencers slip, Remove #1 plug, put your finger over the hole, crank till you feel compression, rotate by hand till piston is at TDC, dist should be aligned, don't remember if camgear is fiber or steel,

Are all rockers moving?? Any rockers leaning? Rollpin in dist gear sheared? Broke valve spring? Intake manifold tight? Rocker studs same height?? Stay tuned,,,,, ,,,,, ,, Greg

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The Red

11-28-1999 04:30:31

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to Greg Martin, 11-27-1999 16:57:19

Greg the rocker arm assembly, springs, etc. look brand new and functioning just fine. Nothing out of the ordinary there. Rotor is turning fine also.

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Wayne

11-27-1999 18:22:15

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to Greg Martin, 11-27-1999 16:57:19

I've had two harmonic balancers slip, makes thing interesting until its caught.

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The Red

11-28-1999 03:46:55

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Re: Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to Wayne, 11-27-1999 18:22:15

You lost me on the harmonic balancers. Sorry for the ignorance but what are you exactly talking about? Durn, wish those manuals would show up.

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Scott Hansen

11-27-1999 15:42:25

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

Just a thought, but could that not be the original pulley on that 292? Or could the engine be modified for the combine such that the front cylinder isn't #1?????

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Fudd

11-27-1999 15:30:54

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

Hi Red

Hi Red! I can post over here but not on the Tales board nor can I get any new posts over there. Wierd huh? I'll shut up for now and watch to see how you do tomorrow. Good Luck!

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highboyford

11-27-1999 15:05:42

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Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to The Red, 11-27-1999 14:30:12

maybe the crank is broke would help explain why she turns over so hard.Or if she has a idler gear the gear could of worn oblong which caused the rest of valvetrain to get out of tune.Had a 400hp chevy with gear drive(pete jackson) do that once.Id pull the timming cover and see what is going on would not be surprised to see timming has jumped.Nothing like buying a project,The combine I bought Red it took me two weeks and tall money to combine about 10 acres,lucky for me wife never saw the bills.

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BOB(WA)

11-27-1999 16:44:07

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Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to highboyford, 11-27-1999 15:05:42

Since you already had the valve cover off you can check valve adjustment and timing with the companion cylinder method. Cylinders 1 and 6 are companions. When bringing 1 up on compression watch valves on number 6.When 6 exhaust is closing and intake is starting to open number 1 should be at TDC. If correct time distributer to 1 You can check valve lash on number 1 at this time also.On a 6 cylinder engine 1 and 6 are companions as well as 2 and 5 are and 3 and 4.Sounds like your on the right track good luck. at

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Skip

11-27-1999 18:37:05

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Re: Re: Re: Need your help on a GM 292 6 cylinder engine. in reply to BOB(WA), 11-27-1999 16:44:07

Red, I have read all the posts and everybody has good ideas but none have considerd does this engine have hydraulic valve lifters? Having set for so long you could have funny situations with valve lash?????
Good Luck

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