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Questions about electrical system

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Dmatthews

01-14-2005 05:49:19




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Are all 6v cubs supposed to be postive Ground?
How is the best way to jump off a 6v system using a 12v system? I burned out my kill switch jumping it off but it was neg ground instead of postive ground. I was told that I may have burned out the coil. If when you take a volt meter to each side of the coil and get a reading the coil should be good right?? Should the starter turn over either way that the battery is grounded?? tractor was running but almost blew off the top of battery feel this is due to battery in backwards Any ideas on how to reverse polarity of the generator I have heard just charge the battery up with cables off and reconnect correctly also have heard to use a jumper on the voltage regulator. Any ideas and if I need the jumper which wires do I use not easily Idetifiable as to ahere they go there are 3 connections on voltage regulator! Also before I burned the switch out It would not crank and i was not able to get fire to the plugs. Could the switch have been going bad?? Put the new one in reversed the battery but starter will not budge not sure of battery charge or charger left it on all night but charger wasnt warm nor did it start battery wasnt bubling you usualy can hear the bubling when they are charged overnight! Lastly the fuse has nothing to do with the ingnition system, right? It only works the lighting system, Right?? got to get it back running we have had 70 degree weather I feel a big snow is in our future need the tractor to clear the snow if we get it !!

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Dave (IL)

01-14-2005 08:29:04




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 Re: Questions about electrical system in reply to Dmatthews, 01-14-2005 05:49:19  
OK, I'll jump in and get things started. I don't know cubs specifically but have some H and other experience.
You have so many disconnected snippets in your post it's impossible to say "do this and it will work".
Best of my knowledge all 6 volt Farmalls came out of the factory with positive ground. I bought an H a couple years ago. Very original - wiring original. I used it for 6 months (over the winter) before I went through it and found the battery in backwards. Starter doesn't care which way the battery is connected. Genny does but can be "re-educated" and occasionally will do that itself.
Really 3 different circuits to worry about - Starting, charging, and sparking. They do have some common points, and many (if not most) old tractors have had somebody add a wire or move a wire to "fix" things.

"tractor was running but almost blew off the top of battery feel this is due to battery in backwards" HUH? It was running when you jumped it? You're not making sense.

"If when you take a volt meter to each side of the coil and get a reading the coil should be good right?? " What did it read? Each post to where? Ground?

Always (as you turn engine over) having 6V to ground on the side connected to distributor probably indicates points are never closing. If you put a test light on that side and crank the engine the light should blink as the points open and close.

I am assuming here you have a battery ignition and not a mag. If so, you don't have a "kill" switch, you have a power switch and the fact that you have 6V to coil indicates that it is on (or bypassed). Put the voltmeter on it and turn the switch off and on (actually that's a push/pull isn't it?)

1. Disconnect and charge the battery. Make sure your charger is connected right. Charge meter should start high, then go down after a while. Check with voltmeter when done. Should read close to 6V . BTW is your charger set at 6V? If it's already charged prolly won't "bubble" much.
2. Reinstall battery. Make sure ALL connections are "shiny, bright, and tight" or whatever that is. Don't overlook "ground" connection - pos to tractor chassis - both ends.
3. Flash the field. This educates your genny to kick electrons in the right direction. Take a wire from battery hot to armature post on genny. Just touch it to get a spark. Don't "jumper" it and leave it on. It's called flash for a reason although doing it twice won't hurt.
4. Starter should spin at that point.

Meanwhile - look your wiring over. Trace out wires. Get a handle on how things are hooked up. Search this site for "wiring diagrams" (also flash in case I messed that up).

And be glad that if I did mess up, a whole bunch of people here will jump in and straighten me out :)

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captaink

01-14-2005 08:25:40




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 Re: Questions about electrical system in reply to Dmatthews, 01-14-2005 05:49:19  
Excellent post by Bigdog and should help you out a lot.

I would like to add that if (and I emphasize IF) I find myself in a situation where I need to jump a 6-volt system from a 12-volt system I try to bypass as many of the electrical components as possible. The first rule of jumping is positive to positive, negative to negative regardless of ground polarity. That said, I take the jumper cables and hook them up to the 12-volt battery first. Then I take the jumper cable from the negative post on the 12-volt battery and hook it directly to where the 6-volt battery cable attaches to the starter and this may be AFTER the starter switch, I don’t care. Then, I engage the starter normally, and quickly attach the cable from the 12-volt positive post to a good ground on the 6-volt system. This should be done in such a way that it completes the circuit to the starter, and will result in a quick spin, hopefully resulting in a quick start. As soon as the engine fires, I unhook the jumper cables as quickly as possible.

I prefer to do it this way for several reasons; I by pass the 6-volt battery with 12-volts, I don’t have sparks near the vicinity of a battery that is either charging or discharging (dramatically reducing battery explosion chances), the actual 12-volt circuit is utilized primarily by the starting motor reducing voltage surge to 6-volt electrical components.

I don’t believe that 12-volts would have burned out your coil, as IH used to wire their early 12-volt tractors to actually start on 12-volts to the coil and run on 6-volts to the coil.

My penny’s worth…

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captaink

01-14-2005 08:25:21




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 Re: Questions about electrical system in reply to Dmatthews, 01-14-2005 05:49:19  
Excellent post by Bigdog and should help you out a lot.

I would like to add that if (and I emphasize IF) I find myself in a situation where I need to jump a 6-volt system from a 12-volt system I try to bypass as many of the electrical components as possible. The first rule of jumping is positive to positive, negative to negative regardless of ground polarity. That said, I take the jumper cables and hook them up to the 12-volt battery first. Then I take the jumper cable from the negative post on the 12-volt battery and hook it directly to where the 6-volt battery cable attaches to the starter and this may be AFTER the starter switch, I don’t care. Then, I engage the starter normally, and quickly attach the cable from the 12-volt positive post to a good ground on the 6-volt system. This should be done in such a way that it completes the circuit to the starter, and will result in a quick spin, hopefully resulting in a quick start. As soon as the engine fires, I unhook the jumper cables as quickly as possible.

I prefer to do it this way for several reasons; I by pass the 6-volt battery with 12-volts, I don’t have sparks near the vicinity of a battery that is either charging or discharging (dramatically reducing battery explosion chances), the actual 12-volt circuit is utilized primarily by the starting motor reducing voltage surge to 6-volt electrical components.

I don’t believe that 12-volts would have burned out your coil, as IH used to wire their early 12-volt tractors to actually start on 12-volts to the coil and run on 6-volts to the coil.

My penny’s worth…

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David Matthews

01-14-2005 09:56:45




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 Re: Questions about electrical system in reply to Bigdog, 01-14-2005 07:42:53  
Thanks to all! to Bigdog this is a distrbutor ignition system ! I checked the coil with no power on! Tractor will not run yet at this time! I was told by Tractor Supply that if I took the volt meter (using the battery in the volt meter for current) And on each terminal of the coil put the leads from the volt meter and if the meter read the current from the battery from the volt meter that the coil was good it made sense if the coil was burned out then you would not get the reading because the current from the voltmeter battery wouldnt go to the other terminal of the coil! Again I am no expert I know in my days on the farm we rarley replaced the coil! But most of all our equip was 12V The battery proably is shot! As far as jumping it off I wondered if the riding lawn mower battery would budge it! It is a 12 v battery but is smaller lower amp less likley to burn anything up! When I said the top of the battery almost blew off the tractor was in operating condition at that time and I was plowing the garden and noticed the top of the battery buldging had to loosen the battery caps to relese the pressure to keep from exploding What gage of wire would I need to re-educate the generator ? I have plenty of Underground dog fence wire would this work??

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Bigdog

01-14-2005 10:55:18




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 Re: Questions about electrical system in reply to David Matthews, 01-14-2005 09:56:45  
Dave - polarizing the generator can be done with a light gauge wire. # 16 or close will be fine. It is just a momentary contact and you should see a slight spark when you touch the wire. The fact that the battery nearly blew and that it swelled up confirms that it is shot. Probably due to the generator trying to charge the battery in the reverse direction. I'd replace the battery, then concentrate on getting the starter to crank over and then attack the other problems. One step at a time will keep you from banging your head against the wall so much. (Been there - done that)

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Dave (IL)

01-14-2005 12:56:56




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 Re: Questions about electrical system in reply to Bigdog, 01-14-2005 10:55:18  
What Bigdog says - one step at a time so I won't comment on your coil test.
I will mention that you should polarize the genny right after you put the new battery in. It won't affect cranking, and it won't affect starting, but when those two are OK, you might forget you didn't flash it and spend a lot of time chasing down genny problems.



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