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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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m wont turn over.

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brad in iowa

01-03-2005 14:22:44




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went out side today to start the m and it wont turn over. just used it yesterday no problems what so ever, but we did get an ice storm overnite. is it possible I got moisture in the starter switch causing it not to turn over. the lites do work so I know the battery is good.




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John M

01-04-2005 06:20:18




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to brad in iowa, 01-03-2005 14:22:44  
Since noone has mentioned it, check your battery connections first,the lights may come on just fine but there may no be a good enough connection to start it.Or it could just simply be that the battery got a little weak in the frozen mess!



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Joe C AL

01-03-2005 17:41:33




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to brad in iowa, 01-03-2005 14:22:44  
I have to leave the top bolt lose on my 300u to stop it from hanging and locking up.



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Andy Martin

01-04-2005 05:42:58




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to Joe C AL, 01-03-2005 17:41:33  
I'm sure leaving the top bolt loose fixes the problem, but I'd suggest you replace the Bendix as you are risking breaking the ears off the starter nose piece by leaving one or both bolts loose.

One of my worst experiences was overfilling a belly pump on an M. It had a pipe cap instead of the factory fill cap which is vented. I always left the pipe cap a little loose to provide some venting. Just after I'd filled it, I hooked up to a cultipacker which is a heavy implement. I dropped the cultipacker in the garden before heading to the field. Heard a loud snap and had hydraulic oil running out the bottom of the tractor. The extra hydraulic pressure had fractured the belly pump reservoir forcing it into the pressure plate, shearing all the lugs off. The side load on the flywheel snapped the crank in two right in the rear main. This had been a good running, strong M.

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Sloroll

01-03-2005 14:33:28




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to brad in iowa, 01-03-2005 14:22:44  
Common problem (if not the switch) may be the starter in a bind. I got a great deal once on a super C. I bought it as stuck ( same symptoms as yours, worked than didn't) I loosened the starter heard a "clunk" put it back on and now have a nice little Super C. My old H did it too. Can you move the crank by pulling on the fan belt, or rocking tractor? Too, check make sure all battery connections and starter connections are good. There may be enough juice getting through to the lights but still have a bad starter connection.

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farmallhal

01-03-2005 17:41:27




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to Sloroll, 01-03-2005 14:33:28  
Just in the need for a daily learning. This seems to be a common problem as I've seen it noted many times on this forum. What causes these stuck starters to begin with? What needs to be fixed or replaced to elminate this problem when it starts to occur? Thanks for sharing what you know about this situation.



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Andy Martin

01-04-2005 05:34:08




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to farmallhal, 01-03-2005 17:41:27  
The starter drive is bad (Bendix) causing it to hang up. Some claim the ring gear can be worn and cause this problem but I have NEVER replaced a ring gear and have fixed this problem on many tractors with a new Bendix. I assume everyone who replaces the ring gear (or turn it around) also replace the starter drive so they fix the problem.



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captaink

01-04-2005 11:33:32




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to Andy Martin, 01-04-2005 05:34:08  
I agree, if the starter is hanging up, it is almost always the bendix. I have however seen the ring gear get worn in the four spots that the engine normally stops. Then the problem is usually the starter will grind and not engage the engine rather than binding up.



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farmallhal

01-04-2005 06:17:13




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to Andy Martin, 01-04-2005 05:34:08  
Andy, thanks for the explanation. I was a commerical aircraft engineer for 40 years and I'm just not trained or believe in working with problems. I don't want repeat problems and want to fix them at the first sign of trouble. Thanks again for the post. Have a great year. Hal



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Andy Martin

01-04-2005 07:54:37




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to farmallhal, 01-04-2005 06:17:13  
I've got 35 years as a pipeline and refinery engineer. In those industries, you can't afford to fix everything, but the critical components can cause as much loss of life as an aircraft failure so you learn to balance the necessity of repair.

For instance, tray failure in a fractionation tower results in lost revenue but shell failure may result in explosion, loss of life, and plant shutdown. So you can take a chance that a corroded tray will make the next run but not a chance that the shell will fail.

So I don't split a tractor to change a ring gear if a Bendix will fix the problem. also, I have lots of tractors and try to keep them in ACCEPTABLE operating shape for a minimum of cost. The average collector would cringe at my collection but I try real hard to preserve the originality of the equipment.

The old engineers are very impressive in their designs and there are not many improvements can be made to the old IH's. The improvements in new tractors are mostly to make them cheaper to produce and more conveniences.

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Andy Martin

01-03-2005 15:03:16




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to Sloroll, 01-03-2005 14:33:28  
Easy way to check the starter is to put it in 5th and rock backwards with the switch off. That will free the starter. When you see the fan blade move the starter is free.

Of course this is hard if you have an implement on the ground.



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riverbend

01-03-2005 16:14:05




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 Re: m wont turn over. in reply to Andy Martin, 01-03-2005 15:03:16  
I have to loosen one or both bolts on the starter to make this work on my H.



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