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IH's Torque Amplifier

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Allan in NE

12-18-2004 05:05:46




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Morning,

I was reading over on the main board about this fella who has a 1086 with 13,000 hours and he has this tractor in the shop for it's 7th T/A.

It got me to wondering why some folks have so much trouble with the T/As and others don't.

Again, I can only speak from 'my little world', but T/A troubles around here are the rarity rather than the norm. Clutch issues aside, very seldom would a tractor ever need a T/A more than once in it's entire lifetime.

Do you suppose it is the regional thing again? The hill country vs the flatland?

Dunno, just seems odd,

Allan

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JC in ky

12-18-2004 18:20:39




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
We have put in a few torques for other people and that main reason they get tore out is going down the road and just pulling the torque from high to low to slow the tractor down without using the breaks. This will do it every time. We have a 1066 1973 that still has the origional one in it. Well thats my two cents Have a good one JC



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NDS

12-18-2004 17:56:18




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
I have never even driven tractor with TA so I have no first hand experience but allmost every tractor you see for sell 560 era and older has bad TA no matter where it is located.



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Hugh MacKay

12-18-2004 19:39:23




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to NDS, 12-18-2004 17:56:18  
NDS: Most 1960s vehicles have something wrong with them by now. When it comes to cars or trucks, not a lot of them even left going. The reason the Farmall gets this reputation is the TA can be bad and tractor will run on high side for years that way. The pitfalls on most other tractors had to be repaired or they wouldn't even operate 20 minutes.

So people give the Farmall the bad name. Never could figure that one. I think the one that wouldn't run at all until repaired, deserves the bad reputation. People are fickle.

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Hugh MacKay

12-18-2004 15:00:59




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
Allan: It was clearly abuse and lack of maintainence that killed TA. The mid 1950s was a time farmers had to throw away the old policy of, "If all else fails read the manual". Some folks did this well and some didn't. It is also painfully obvious some areas did this much better than others.

Some folks still just don't know. For example when I see a guy give advice on not allowing tractor to free wheel, we know he doesn't know much about TA. Probably less than 40% of TA equiped tractors actually did or would free wheel. Lets face it only 00, 50, 60 series plus 504, 544, 656, 666 and 686 actually did free wheel. All others did not free wheel.

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TP from Central PA

12-18-2004 14:55:31




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
The old mechanical T/A"s seem to go out alot more than the Hydraulic jobs here..... .....It probably the hills that cause this as they free-wheel.

I use the T/A hard and we never lost one that was good when we bought the tractor..... .....granted, we did buy more than a few with a T/A that was shot from the begining.



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PAULIH300

12-18-2004 13:59:20




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
Dumb question....is the TA engaged when the lever is forward or backward (locked)? Do you need to do something else besides moving the lever to engage it? (clutch in? Neutral? in gear?)
Seems as mine isnt working.



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Allan in NE

12-18-2004 14:27:56




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to PAULIH300, 12-18-2004 13:59:20  
Hi Paul,

T/A is operating with the lever back and all ya do is give 'er a yank or shove it forward.

You don't feel a decrease in speed, increase in torque when you pull the lever back? Wonder if someone has welded the thing up rendering it inoperative?

Allan



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PAULIH300

12-18-2004 14:36:50




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 14:27:56  
The linkage is all free and seems to be OK,yet I have tried it both ways and it doesnt seem to make a difference.I will say though,that 1st gear is a real crawler of a gear,even at 2,000 RPM.Maybe the TA is stuck on all the time?
The use this has had for the past 50 years,anything is possible,but I'm thinking if its not trashed,there must be some seriously out-of-adjustment.The cluch is good though...no chattering,and very smooth action.Actually,not too bad on the leg either.(unlike a lot I have heard about).

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rednekelmo

12-18-2004 13:50:54




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
I think I'll go with the ignorance abuse and lack of knowledge.The T/A in my grandfathers 806 lasted as long as the clutch and he was never shy about using.where we live in central ohio you can go from heavy black groung to light soil to clay knobs all in the same round ensuring lots of throwing the lever up and back.My grandfather was never shy about using the T/A not just in heavy work but some lighter jobs he would run with the T/A back and throw it up when idiling acrossed the ends

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rednekelmo

12-18-2004 13:34:12




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
I think I'll go with the ignorance abuse and lack of knowledge.The T/A in my grandfathers 806 lasted as long as the clutch and he was never shy about using.where we live in central ohio you can go from heavy black groung to light soil to clay knobs all in the same round ensuring lots of throwing the lever up and back.My grandfather was never shy about using the T/A not just in heavy work but some lighter jobs he would run with the T/A back and throw it up when idiling acrossed the ends

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Redmud

12-18-2004 09:27:32




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
Allan, There is this one guy I know, you could let him use your anvil, when he was done with whatever he was doing, you would need a new anvil. Redmud



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jonesy

12-18-2004 14:46:25




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Redmud, 12-18-2004 09:27:32  
I have to second that. Some could even destroy an anvil with a rubber mallet.



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super red

12-18-2004 08:08:47




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
Another thing that will take them out is freewheeling down hill with the TA pulled back . I have seen it done a time or two .



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RustyFarmall

12-18-2004 08:00:55




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
I don't think it has anything to do with hills or flatland. I think the problem lies with operators that just don't understand how the TA is supposed to be used.



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Allan in NE

12-18-2004 14:36:02




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to RustyFarmall, 12-18-2004 08:00:55  
Hi Guy,

I've been around these gizmos since the days of the old 400Ds and to be honest about it, I didn't even know that they gave any trouble until I started reading the posts on this board.

Well, that and not until I bought this old heifer from down in the middle of Iowa. The T/A in this one was completely hammered out, but it still pulled okay. The clutch was slipping is all.

I just figured it was something you guys had in the water down there. :>)

Allan

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Dave (IL)

12-18-2004 05:35:18




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Allan in NE, 12-18-2004 05:05:46  
At about the ripe age of 11, I got our H stuck in a silt settling area of a gravel pit just out playing around. It was sitting on the rear axle in the mud.

I walked home and called my buddy down the road who had a brand new 400 or 450. He came down and we went to the pit and threw a chain on the H.

He started pulling, nothing's happening. He cranks it up and after a very short time, smoke just starts pouring from the 400's center section. I hollered to him as to what gear it was in and he said 4th. I said something about his intelligence and told him to put it in 1st. He replied "Well, 4ths OK 'caue I got the TA on!"

I always waited for that tractor to explode after that, but it never did to my knowledge.

Oh yeah, walked the H right outta there in 1st.

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Ian Davies

12-18-2004 14:46:10




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Dave (IL), 12-18-2004 05:35:18  
Can you put a TA in a 674 if so would it give you higher gearing in the TA mode and how much would it cost just curious ?
Also my cousin said there are several different transmissions giving differant speeds for a 74 series tractor, my transmissions real slow 15 mph top road speed.



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Hugh MacKay

12-18-2004 19:55:32




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Ian Davies, 12-18-2004 14:46:10  
Ian: TA would be quite expensive to add to at tractor no so equiped from factory. I have a 1975 buyers guide from IH and it doesn't even show TA as an option for 574 and 674. I'm sure I remember seeing those tractors with TA back when thay were new. I tried out a 574 at a demonstration, I'm sure that had TA. This guide lists transmission gear numbers for tractors with and without TA.

To your 2nd question TA just slows tractor about 30% in each gear. Your tractor at 15 mph is about average. Very few are much faster than that.

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Puller504

12-19-2004 01:19:11




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-18-2004 19:55:32  
I was told back in the mid-70"s that 574"s and 674"s with TA"s were manufactured in Canada? I have seen some for sale locally here in Northeast Ohio with a TA. Don



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Hugh MacKay

12-19-2004 02:28:07




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Puller504, 12-19-2004 01:19:11  
Puller504: I don't think they were ever manufactured in Canada. I think you will find all 574 and 674 were manufactured in Germany or Britain. Small crawlers are all that was ever manufactured here in Canada. There were a lot of implements manufactured here at Hamilton ON.

Thanks for the info confirming TA on these. I was sure I drove one with TA, but this little book wasn't saying so. It didn't say no either. It just listed 66 series as 8/4, 16/8 with TA. When it came to 574 and 674 8/4 omly. This wasn't the full IH buyers guide for 75, just a pocket version containing only tractors, loaders and tillage eq.

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Ian DAvies

12-18-2004 22:21:23




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-18-2004 19:55:32  
Thanks Hugh for telling me a TA reduces gearing , my cousin drove a 574 with a TA for a contractor so I know they could have had a TA,



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Hugh MacKay

12-19-2004 02:47:51




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Ian DAvies, 12-18-2004 22:21:23  
Ian: I was quite sure on the TA item just that this little pocket version of IH buyers guide containing tractors, loaders and tillage eq. was not confirming what I was saying. It lsted 66 series tractors speeds as 8/4, 16/8 with TA when it came to 74 series it was showing 8/4 only. Must be just an omission misprint. Thanks for confirming, I was sure I drove a 574 with TA.

They were a very popular tractor with dairy farmers. They liked the short wheel base for square baling and haybine work. TA would have been quite important as well for those jobs. There is a guy in my home town claims 574, 674, 584 and 684 have baled more hay than all others combined. I'm sure he is right for that imediate area. I used 560 and 656 for those jobs, and he called the 560 the ark. He did agree 656 was a bit better.

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Ian Davies

12-19-2004 23:47:01




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 Re: IH's Torque Amplifier in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-19-2004 02:47:51  
Hugh my cousin who worked for a cotractor said one of the advantages with the 74 series deleted from the next series was on the independant pto there is a feathering position prior to operation which is good for reducing strain on haybining and Haybalers probably that and the short wheel base synchro shuttle gear box fuel efficient german engine, 80 litre diesel tank behind seat
no gear levers in the way hydrostatic steering and disk hydraulic brakes transmission oil cooler standard large 40 litre a minute hydraulic pump
make it a hell of a tractor!

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