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Any winter starting tips

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Dave MN

12-13-2004 11:28:19




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Well it is 10 below windchill here in MN and my 544 Deisel Started right up with a shot of either and the water heater plugged in, much to my relief as this is my 1st year with this tractor. It will be getting colder and would like advice on what fuel to use this winter. I have strait #2 in it now but i need to top off the tank for this winter. Some say mix with kerosene but i have never seen that done.

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El Toro

12-13-2004 17:03:27




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to Dave MN, 12-13-2004 11:28:19  
Hi Dave, I would have to agree with Hugh on the DF1 diesel fuel. Keep using that coolant heater
and go easy on that ether.

It doesn't get that cold here in NE MD,
but in 1994 it was down to -20 degrees in Jan. and
even our fuel oil tank waxed up that fed the shop furnace. A lot of semi trucks were sitting along
I95 from DF2 waxing. Hal



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Hugh MacKay

12-14-2004 08:18:57




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to El Toro, 12-13-2004 17:03:27  
Hal: Just a word about #1 and #2 diesel. even in your NE MD 1994 deep freeze you were probably better off with #2. I've never done any north-south trucking but guys tell me you best have you #1 diesel used up by the time you hit the Mason-Dixon line and plan to refuel with #2. Diesels will warm up quite quickly on #1 diesel in warm weather.

I had this happen with 560 and 656. Neither had been used much all winter, but both had #1 diesel in tanks. One nice warm April day I started one of them, not only do they run much hotter, they don't sound right either. I drained the fuel off and filled both with #2. You have to be a bit sharper in the fall. They do have to start to blend tank contents with pump and filter contents.

Fuel companies up here climatize their formulas almost weekly in spring and fall. Only time we get caught is with a tractor were not using much at the time, or if we haven't filled that storage tank in awhile. Delivery guys and users are usually quite sharp on that one.

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El Toro

12-14-2004 09:23:29




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-14-2004 08:18:57  
Hi Hugh, DF2 is probably ok as long as they keep the engine running. The fuel return will keep the fuel warm in the fuel tanks as long as they
switch from tank to tank. Most of those truckers
know which fuel to use and when to blend DF2 with
DF1.

One of my former co-worker's called last winter when it was very cold about his son's
Dodge truck with the Cummins diesel had quit running. The knew the fuel was jelling and wanted to know how to get it started. I told them
to do as the German's do add about a gallon of gasoline to the diesel fuel.

The truck is garaged over night and he didn't have this problem until the truck sat
outside all day while he was working. I think
a farm tractor would do ok on DF1, they're not running down the interstate 60 to 70mph like these semi's are. The government had a diesel fuel called DFA for arctic temps. It looked like
clear urine even at -65 degrees. In 1994 when it was -20 we had about 20 generators on test and they all shutdown. We switched to JP4. We switched back after the temp warmed up. Hal

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Hugh MacKay

12-13-2004 14:00:31




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to Dave MN, 12-13-2004 11:28:19  
Dave: Forget all those silly little formulas. By #1 diesel fuel from one of the mainline suppliers in your area. That fuel will be formulated for your climate and will need no other additive other than methyl hydrate. Methyl hydrate is only needed to stop your fuel from gelling. Your fuel company can not add methyl hydrate as it would only evaporate in storage.

Every time you fill tractor with fuel add about 1/2 cup of methyl hydrate. If tractor sits couple of weeks it will evaporate and will need to add more. By the way you can usually buy methyl hydrate at your local drug store for about half what you will pay elsewhere.

All those other products you see on the shelves of automotive stores are purely designed to do little more than relieve you of money.

On motor oil and given the engine you have 15W-40 diesel service only. Make sure your block heater is working well. A good working block heater makes every start a summer start. You should never need ether.

In my lifetime I have probably logged 60,000 hours on 6 diesels. Only ever remember buying 3 injection pumps, couple of rebuilds, 1 new set of injectors and had 5 sets rebuilt. Since my farming days I have driven log trucks in winter temps similar to yours. Three different companies, two Cats and one Cummins. All three owners used the same formula as I did over the years, #1 fuel, methyl hydrate only additive, block heater and 15W-40 diesel service motor oil only.

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JT

12-13-2004 15:23:21




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-13-2004 14:00:31  
Hugh,
what is the differance between methyl hydrate and the Power Serve additives? Are they the same thing in different priced bottles??



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Hugh MacKay

12-13-2004 19:31:44




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to JT, 12-13-2004 15:23:21  
JT: Interesting question, I think there are more ingrediants than just methyl hydrate in most of them, however most of those would be already in #1 diesel fuel. Fuel manufacturers probably do add some methyl hydrate as well. Problem is it just will not stay there.

We all run into the same problem in our daily winter driving. Methyl hydrate is also used in windshield washers as the agent to prevent it from freezing. From time to time we all swear about that poor jug of washer we got, as it freezes. If you pay close attention to that one, you'll quite often discover, been 4 or 5 dry days, you haven't used washers. Methyl hydrate has evaporated. At that point I just pour a bit back in the system.

We get the same thing with air brake conditioners, all kinds of fancy names out there for what amounts to nothing more than methyl hydrate. Lock deicers are the same. I make one stop do for my deicing supplies, I keep a gallon of methyl hydrate plus a 20cc hypodermic shringe with a small hose on the end. You have to remove plunger from shringe after each use as the alcohol will make it stick. Great way for getting product into air brake systems, locks, etc. I do have a bit of concern that someday, someone is going to question the shringe, I'm hoping 20 cc will look reasonable, for the use I'm making rather than what police usually think of when these thing are discovered. I've never been questioned about the shringe in that respect, then no one has ever gone looking. I don't think truck inspection would be too difficult, they are aware deicing problems. Police would probably understand. The one that would concern me is a customs agent, reasoning with them my be horse of a different color.

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captaink

12-13-2004 12:12:24




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to Dave MN, 12-13-2004 11:28:19  
A tried and true method that has worked for me for many years is as follows. Above 20 degrees F, straight # 2 diesel fuel will work fine. Below that I start blending # 1 with it. My rule of thumb is that 60% #1 and 40% #2 will work to at least -25 F (25% #1 at about 0 F). I will blend to the coldest temp I expect (which is at least 10 degrees below what a reputable weather man calls for) but leave enough room in the tank to get to 60% # 1 if needed. Below that I go straight #1. I also use 10-10W oil in the winter; plug the engine in on a timer set to go on 2 hours before I want to start it. Light fuel, plus light oil equals easier starting. As long as I followed this, I never had a gel-up, engines always started and I’ve had very limited injector or pump trouble in the 30 plus years I’ve been running diesels on the farm and up and down the road at temps as low as -30 F. I never worked the tractors for extended periods of time under severe loads in the winter either, usually shorter runs with medium to heavy (grinding feed or blowing snow) loads.

Now, some will tell you that too much #1 is hard on pumps, injectors. Some will recommend adding diesel fuel conditioner and running a higher percentage of #2 fuel. I have also heard that 1% unleaded regular gasoline (no alcohol) will keep #2 from gelling in the winter. I have never tired any of these and don’t know if they work or cause damage or not.

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JT

12-13-2004 12:10:28




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to Dave MN, 12-13-2004 11:28:19  
We always use a mix of 50-50 #1 and #2 diesel, wiht additive. Used this in road truck and grader, pushing snow, never had one gel up. as for starting, kept them plugged in and used ether as a starting aid.



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Micael soldan

12-13-2004 12:05:55




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to Dave MN, 12-13-2004 11:28:19  
Dave, your winter oil is important too. 10w30 will start easier than 30HD or a 5w40 for high hour engines.y fuel dealer adds kerosene to diesel for "winter diesel" and I believe it is about 10%. I use a diesel fuel conditioner in the winter which cleans injectors, removes moisture and lubes the pump. An AC dealer friend of mine says to put a quart of automatic trans fluid in each tank of fuel for the winter, it too removes moisture and lube the pump. A tractor stored inside seems to start easier than outside even though the temperature is the same in both places Some fellows put a bit of gasolene in their diesel fuel as a winter diesel, again sbout 10%. Volkswagon suggests doing this for their diesel engines in extreme cold conditions. I have put a couple of gallons of gasolene in a tank of diesel in sudden cold weather and it didn't hurt anything, my fuel certainly didn't gel. Your question was more directed at starting in cold, I think lighter winter oil, use your glow plugs and use an injector cleaner the year round. My 584 starts without ether, glow plugs or plug in and we get -27*C, my B250 needs about 35 seconds on glow plugs and then it kicks over and starts in the same extremes. Just be real careful with ether, try to rely on the heater to warm the engine and let the tractor start on that. Ether can be useful but it can wash the cylinder walls real quick if the tractor doesn't start, it can also ignite suddenly and take the top out of a piston. Don't ever use glow plugs and ether together as that is a recipe for trouble. Sounds like you are on the right track, plug it in , fire it up..put a couple of old blankets over the hood to keep the heat in when you have it plugged in...the best of luck getting started...Mike In Exeter Ontario

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ian Davies

12-14-2004 22:29:04




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 Re: Any winter starting tips in reply to Micael soldan, 12-13-2004 12:05:55  
Ok this sounds crazy, i dont know if it works: park engine above a mist water sprayer from a garden faucet, By morning everything is covered in ice, but is at around 30 degrees not 0 degrees the water changing to ice gives off heat and has heated up the engine system is now used in orange orchards in Florida to stop oranges freezing



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