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OT, 93 F-350 Diesel problem

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ChadS

12-02-2004 11:22:16




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Good afternoon. Fellas, I have a question, or quite a few to be honest. Need some direction. I got a 93 Ford F-350XL, It is a cab and chassis model, plain jane, it has the very short wheel base, flatbed, dually ,and oh yes, a 7.3 (non turbo) Diesil, with a 5 speed. (Just too bad fuel prices are the way they are) I use it to pull my tractors around, its not a every day driver, but it get used. Been fixin her up alot. Sure is nice to have a smooth riding truck on these rough Indiana backroads. It has had a few problems since I bought it. And one is still lingering.. Bout 2 months ago,, I had to replace the injector pump. I got a good used one, off of a runner, that had been wrecked. The donor truck, had always ran perfect, just too much $$ to fix it. So, I swapped the pumps out. Upon inspection of the donor pump, I had noticed that the advance mechanism linkage on the side of the pump was sticking, so I took it off the old pump. A freind of mine, told me, while I had that apart, to go ahead and look at the advance unit its self to see if was scored up. Did not look too bad,, but the actuator plunger,, was sticking and would stick, it is a small little fitting, on the outside of the pump, but,, has an adjustment to set the proper advance when the throttle is floored, or what have ya,, I used the one from the old pump. I did not change the adjustment from one pump, to the other,,, So, everything was working, parts were freed up,, and cleaned, ready to put it on the truck. Put it on,, lined up the notches on the pump, and the engine, (iwould think tdc for #1?) anyways, put it on, bled the lines, and fired it up. run decent,, wasnt as strong, but has developed 2 problems since I swapped it. First off, on cold starts,, I cycle the glow plugs, lite goes out, and start it. it will take right off, but it runs funny. like it loads up, or, maybe the filter lost prime,, I have to hold it to the floor, kinda open it and close it, while tunring it over,, then stop, recylce the glow plugs,, and it fires up and stays running,, erratic,, but running,, I have to kinda hold the rpms up a bit for it to smooth out, and stop blubbering, at least, that is how I would decribe it. Smooths out, ready to rock and roll. It never starts hard, after it has warmed up, fires right up,, its like when u park it overnite,, it is when it does it. when it goes down the road, runs good, but at about little over half throttle,, she smokes black, i mean cant see the car behind you black. and I can let off the throttle, back the rpms down a hair, and no smoke,,, just when it gets to the point. plenty of power up till that point in the throttle. thats it as far as how the engine runs for charateristics,, so, now on to the second problem it developed when i changed the pump. it gets diesil in the engine oil. thins it out,, gotta change it bout every 3-500 miles if u drove all the time id say. Now i know about the seal in the front of the pump,, but it never did that on the wrecked truck,,, so I dont think the front shaft seal is out,, Im wondering if I have the advance out of whack,,, I think, that since it is fluttering at cold starts, its not getting into start mode on the pump,, (like activating the idle circuit fromthe advacne too far) I think the oil problem,, is from the advance being too early, and flooding the cyl, and washing down the rings. from too much fuel at the wrong rpm. Now, the engines condition is good,, I caught it before I really drove it around and blew the crank out of it. I checked the oil after an oil change, 100+ miles after I changed the pump, and the oil that day,, and it was overfull about a quart. Real thin too,,, SHOOT!! parked it. I drove it on a road trip last week, but I took a drain pan, and lots of oil with me, yeah, that was fun,,, but a country boy had to make that run, and that was the only thing I had. oil never got the chance to thin out, and ruin it. So, now Im ready to take a look at it,, and I have been thinking bout it for about a month now,, this, what I described, is what Ive been rattlin in my brain,,, as to what I thought about trying. U guys think it is out of adjustment onthe advance mechanism? ( a side note on the donor pump) had been replaced in 2002, and had bout 35,000 on it. and what i told ya is what ive done. I think ya all may have been in my shoes before,, Im just a young fella, still learning, and I love to turn a wrench or 5! LOL. Its just a good ol truck, but Im too proud to send it up to the shop. I think I can fix that!!??? any info would be great on the settings, or anything! Park the chevy,, drive the FORD! Thanks! ChadS

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KEV

12-02-2004 15:51:43




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 Re: OT, 93 F-350 Diesel problem in reply to ChadS, 12-02-2004 11:22:16  
Chads

I could give you some more info but Bob has given you about as much info as anybody could.
Just to let you know if you need that pump run on a test bench and calibrated I would do that for you.We run about 30 of these pumps per day.Have any part you will need.

Let me know if I can help.

KEV



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ChadS

12-02-2004 20:01:03




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 Re: OT, 93 F-350 Diesel problem in reply to KEV, 12-02-2004 15:51:43  
Whats your #? ChadS



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Bob

12-02-2004 11:49:42




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 Re: OT, 93 F-350 Diesel problem in reply to ChadS, 12-02-2004 11:22:16  
1.) The mechanical "advance" lever on the side of the pump is actually a "retard". When you put the pedal to the metal, and the pump goes into full fuel delivery, the start of injection is earlier (advanced) because the pump plungers are pushed out farther by the greater charge of fuel, so they contact the cam ring sooner, causing earlier injection timing. THE MORE THE LEVER PUSHES THE PIN "IN", THE MORE THE INJECTION TIMING IS RETARDED. This works AGAINST the speed advance, which uses the increase in fuel pressure as the engine speeds up to ADVANCE injection timing.

On the Ford and GM light diesels, the Roosa pump was fitted with this "retard" mechanism to prevent blowing the engine apart due to the start of injection being to early at high throttle positions, when the speed advance has the cam ring advanced, and the plungers go to full stroke also, effectively giving even more advance.

You say the little pin that extends out through a seal, and contacts the external lever was sticking. Was this "on the bench", or on a running engine? if it was "on the bench", it's somewhat normal. When on a running engine, the internal pump pressure assists the little internal spring in pushing the pin out against the lever.

2.) As far as the "start and die" problem. you are getting air in the fuel system.

These Fords leak at the plastic injector "tees" (there's 2 "O" rings under each fitting. Any leak in the fuel suction lines, or lift pump, or at the filter base, or anywhere in the return system will allow air to enter the system when it sits overnight, or whatever. Since you are getting fuel in the oil, you may have a leak at the pump shaft seal, or a bad mechanical lift pump. Even a bad injector can let air in the system.

I doubt your pump advance at starting or idle is too early, unless you've noticed a LOT of diesel rattle at idle. Usually if the pump is even a couple of degrees early, the increase in rattle is VERY noticeable.

With the engine running and warmed up (at idle), carefully use a screwdriver to push on the "retard" lever, to push the little pin inward. Diesel rattle should get less, and as you continue to push the pin inward, the engine will began to smoke because the timing is too late. This will verify that the mechanism is working.

Find the source of your fuel leak into the engine, and fix any places where fuel seeps out of fitting (which also cause air leaks with the engine "off", and you'll most likely fix MOST of your problems with one repair.

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ChadS

12-02-2004 15:09:05




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 Re: OT, 93 F-350 Diesel problem in reply to Bob, 12-02-2004 11:49:42  
Bob,, thanks,, it does have a whole lot more of the diesil knock when it first starts up, i give it some gas,, and itll smooth out, then back to idel, and it is fine. I replaced the arm itself, it is held on by a roll pin, and it was sticking there,, tooki it off the old pump,, and that had the adjuster on the end, that makes contact with the plunger,, I never reset this to match the new pump,, it has a small allen head to make the adjustment,,, I had wondered about the fuel pump itself,, I replaced it new,, then the injector pump died about 1000 miles later. IF, the adjustment is off on the retard mechanism,, would it change the fuel delivery pressure timing at the injectors? it is possible that the shaft seal could be out,, but never did it to the donor engine,, Im thinking if the adjustment is out of whack,, its not timed right, and if that mechanism is in the right spot,, it would do what I decribed? I do remember,, that when i changed that entire arm,, that it did push in on the plunger pin,, maybe little over 1/8th inch,, is this too much? Ill double check the return lines,, for I know of a clamp that could be tightened. it is the small line off the filter that is the return. I was wondering, is there a way to check to see where the retard mechanism is set correctly? should I back it out, then turn it in till it just touches,, or ?? thanks! ChadS

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Bob

12-02-2004 15:25:57




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 Re: OT, 93 F-350 Diesel problem in reply to ChadS, 12-02-2004 15:09:05  
The cam on the throttle shaft is set using an angle gauge. I don't have specs at hand, though. The more you screw the Allen-head screw in at the bottom of the lever, the more the timing will retard. Outside of a test stand, I'm not sure how to accurately set that.

Are you aware of the HPCA solenoid (Housing Pressure Cold Advance)? This is the second wire attached to the pump cover, more rearward as it sits in the pickup.

There is a thermal switch near the thermostat housing that supplies battery voltage to that second terminal when the engine coolant is below about 129F. That solenoid dumps pump housing pressure, causing the cam ring to advance for better starting, and clean running at startup.

If that system is working, there will be extra diesal rattle at startup until the coolant temp comes up, and then it will abruptly retard a few degrees. This is also hooked to the high idle solenoid.

If the HPCA system is not working, there will be more smoke and rough running at startup.

Have you noticed if the advance and/or the fast idle are working?

Did you take a look at the fuel lift pump, for possible weeping and leakage that might also inducate fuel is leaking into the crankcase?

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ChadS

12-02-2004 17:44:23




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 Re: OT, 93 F-350 Diesel problem in reply to Bob, 12-02-2004 15:25:57  
Bob, I found that the plug for the thermal swith, indeed was unhooked. I removed the arm, and messed around with the adjustment screw, I now know what u mean about the sound they make. Makes it rattle! that was backed all the way out. it was holding in the retard plunger in quite a bit before i removed it, I have not put it back on just yet, it rattles bad when it is at full rest, or advance., Ive never heard one run that much to know what sound it should make at idle, especially being naturally aspirated. Im gonna trail and error it for about 5 or 6 test starts, see which sound, it seems to run and like. Found a clamp loose on the return line, off the fuel rail, that goes to the filter, Both timing markers on the pump, and the housing, are lined up straight, thats where the old pump was, so that is where I set this one as well. Ill know more tommorrow heading back out to the garage. Its not too awful cold tonight. THANK YOU again! ChadS

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ChadS

12-02-2004 20:14:49




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 Re: OT, 93 F-350 Diesel problem in reply to ChadS, 12-02-2004 17:44:23  
Well, the verdict is in,, I found the pump mount nuts were a bit loose, they were not way loose, but a bit more did not hurt. I went ahead and retourqued all I messed with. I checked all the injector lines, all seems to be good and sealed. I got it adjusted, I backed it out a 1/2 turn at a time, till it seemed to run its best under a load, had an empty 25 ft trailer on the back,, and it is alot better torque. it was good and warmed up, so well see how she starts in the morning! Thank you Bob, for explaining all that to me. I learned something tonite! Thanks again! If I can help ya, just ask! ChadS

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