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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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460 question part 2

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ChadS

11-03-2004 08:11:35




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Aces, and IH mechanics, Here is a few photos of what I am working with, the first photo is out of a C-263 (706 gas) Piston and sleeve assembly, and see where the piston stops at the top of the sleeve? This is where the stock C-263 firecrater piston stops in the bore with the stock compression height. Now see the next picture.. ChadS

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ChadS

11-03-2004 08:21:16




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 Re: 460 question part 2 in reply to ChadS, 11-03-2004 08:11:35  
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Ok here is photo number 2. Like I said, there is .304 difference in compression height between the 460, (221ci) which is 2.328 compression height. The C-263, which is 560-706 and others,, that have a compression height of 2.024. the photo, is of the same 706 sleeve and piston, only with the 460 compression height. See the difference sticking out of the top of the sleeve? With a few passes on the mill to build the clearence to fit the top of the pistons in the head, and valve reliefs. Should build some good compression in a 263 engine huh?? Thanks for looking! ChadS

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the tractor vet

11-03-2004 12:21:34




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 Re: 460 question part 2 in reply to ChadS, 11-03-2004 08:21:16  
This may be true , but just what do you plan on feeding this thing for gas and do you plan on working it or playing with it at the track???? Also remember that ya don't have a seven main engine here . If ya want to make more power out of a 460 gasser their are two ways i would go about it and still have something that you could use in the field , And rember that setting up to 706 0r 806 gasser spec's ya got to run 93 octain anyway.

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ChadS

11-03-2004 12:51:03




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 Re: 460 question part 2 in reply to the tractor vet, 11-03-2004 12:21:34  
This particular engine, will be on the track. A this time, it is only a guess on the compression ratio, but thinking of the cyl pressure to be 200-210 psi. Roughly,, 10:1-10.5:1 compression ratio. I am going to feed it 94 octane pump gas. Most LP IH engines were around 200 psi of compression, but have you ever seen those pistons? Very high domes on them. And if there is still some new on the shelves somewhere, they are still very expencive. I know in our area, we used 806 LP pistons in our H pullers,, and the company that sold them to me, said we bought the last set available! Dont know bout the availability for the 263 LP pistons as far as new pistons are concerned. In my honest opinion, this would run in the fields all day long, provided the carb is set up to the added compression to compensate for the power increase. If not it would lean out, and burn up the head, gasket, or the piston. I am hoping, if I do get 200+psi of compression, I belive that the 263 would make 90+ hp, on 94 octane fuel, at stock rpm, and live to tell about it. And use IH stock bore pistons to do it, even though it takes a bit of machine work to do so. As far as the cranks being able to hold the HP, the diesils, are almost the same crank, if the tolereances are in good order on the thrust, and the rods and mains, it will hold up, that just my opinion,, ChadS

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the tractor vet

11-03-2004 21:43:59




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 Re: 460 question part 2 in reply to ChadS, 11-03-2004 12:51:03  
They could be for above 8500 ft high alt. And i would be thinking about running atleast C12 VP fuel as 94 will not be enough for a 10to1 Ya need atleast 100to 105 and ya got to watch just how much timing to much will hurt you . Wheni was still out playen we always ran the C12 VP and it must have worked well because nobody bet us .



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ChadS

11-04-2004 06:48:04




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 Re: 460 question part 2 in reply to the tractor vet, 11-03-2004 21:43:59  
C-12 is a pretty good racing fuel. It does have a high octane rating, but was designed for high rpm use. (above 4000rpm) I am using a different mixture of fuel designed for low rpm, high compression engines. It makes a huge difference in how the engine makes power in the low rpms. I have been concerned with preigntion, and detonation in this engine. Fuel is a mix of 94 octane, with ethanol added to aide in the preigntion, and detonation. I get the fuel from farm beaureu COOP. And the fuel makes power. Hard to find a good pulling or farm fuel that will do what this fuel can do. Been running it for years, in H engines making 290+psi cyl pressure. Instead of using more octane, the ethanol cushions the erratic conditions that create preigntion and detonation. It burns cleaner in the cyl. So the fuel does more,, with less octane. Octane,, can actually shoot you in the foot in these cases. Too much,, will create carbon deposits, which float around in the cyl, stick to the electrode of the plugs, they can foul the plugs, give an inacurate plug color reading to see if the engine is running efficiently, also, when these little carbon deposits add up, the get red hot, and create hot spots in the combustion chamber, these little sparks from this, is one of the main reasons for preigntion and detonation in higher compression engines. Also, in low rpm engines, the slower the burn in the cyl the better, low rpm engines, like tractor engines have so much more time to create efficency over a high reving engine. See racing fuel like C-12, is meant to burn very fast in the cyl. At high rpm the fuel has to get in, burn up fast and get out, ready for the next charge. C-12 helps lite the fire better in the high rpm engines, and makes power and torque at the high rpm. at low rpm,, that fuel does not work as well as other fuels. the burn time is way too fast for the rpm, it does burn well, but just dont burn long enough to help a low rpm engine make power. Tractor engines,, are slower in operation VS the racing engines. There is so much more time to create efficency and be able to recognize the engine charateristics to establish a bit of different technology to make these old engine run so much better. Thats my opinion on fuels, and octane. Let me ask you a question,, on the work horses, what was the most common break down inthe cyl head on the IH 6's? Valves? rings, cracking heads? ChadS

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