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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Puzzling cooling problem on BN

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ffolkes

11-02-2004 20:03:19




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Hello-

I’m totally baffled about this. I noticed my BN was steaming a lot, so I looked in, and saw no fluid. I waited until it was cold and topped it off (well, about an inch down the neck). Today I started it up, drove to get some firewood, and on the way back it started steaming again. I turned the tractor off and could hear boiling coolant in the block and in the upper radiator reservoir. I felt the intake casting (bottom), and it was *ice* cold. I couldn't feel the top because, well, it was boiling inside...need I say more? ;)

I waited until it was thoroughly cooled, took the radiator off, and flushed lots of water though the block - in one end, and out the other. Did the same to the radiator.

Why the #%^$# isn't it circulating!?

Thanks.

ffolkes

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riverbend

11-03-2004 12:27:09




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to ffolkes, 11-02-2004 20:03:19  
Has the radiator been recored with smaller diameter tubes ? There was some discussion about this 6 months ago, but I don't remember the details.



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lee

11-03-2004 07:33:34




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to ffolkes, 11-02-2004 20:03:19  
Take the radiator to a good radiator shop and have it chemically/professionally cleaned. They will be able to tell you what the story is on the radiator. The radiator must be in good shape for the thermosiphon to work. The theory is warm water rises in the radiator and cold water drops thru the radiator. The process is called convection flow or thermosyphon but all the passages must be open and unrestricted for this to work. If you have re-built the motor with a big bore kit you will have a marginal system at best under work conditions. In that case
you would be much improved to add a water pump.
There can also be a restriction in the block or radiator. You have to start somewhere. I'd start with the radiator. If you've had the machine apart in a barn for a long time there is possibility a mouse has made his home in there.

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JT

11-03-2004 06:53:17




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to ffolkes, 11-02-2004 20:03:19  
You have mentioned that you have flushed with a garden hose. A garden hose is 5/8 to 3/4" a radiator hose is 2" The reason you are getting water to flow through is you are putting a lot less water through with a lot less pressure. I had a truck one time that did the same thing, radiator was 3/4 plugged so I was getting flow, but not enough to keep it cool. On these small Farmall tractors, the radiator needs to be kept with optimum flow, you have no water pump, it is a thermo-syphon cooling, so all you have is the heat rises, cool drops theory to make this cool. You may have 1-2 columns clean, so that is why you get water through it, but not enough to cool it.

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dej(JED)

11-03-2004 06:12:51




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to ffolkes, 11-02-2004 20:03:19  
Radiator is plugged..... ..... .



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gene b

11-03-2004 04:12:08




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to ffolkes, 11-02-2004 20:03:19  
If you used the hose to back flush thru the bottom you should have cleaned the four nickle sized passages at the bottom area around sleeves where the coolant passes. Was your fan belt tight enough? Try it again and see if it runs better with the flush job that you did.



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ffolkes

11-03-2004 04:26:22




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to gene b, 11-03-2004 04:12:08  
As far as I know, the fan has no factor in this, since that cools the radiator, and that's just the problem. The radiator is ice cold, except for the top.

I'm assuming you mean the passages by the cylinder sleeves? Even if they were partially clogged, how could I get such heavy flow through the block with my garden hose? Wouldn't it be considerably restricted?

Thanks.

ffolkes



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MagMan

11-03-2004 05:50:23




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to ffolkes, 11-03-2004 04:26:22  
Whoooo what a min. The Fan has a lot to do with it its hooked to the water pump isnt it? Is your pump circulating the water the fan can keep the radiator cool but the pump has to circulate it through the block and then the rad to cool it back off. I am familar with the Hs and Ms I would imagine the little one have water pumps also dont they. JON



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SAm in NS

11-03-2004 07:47:42




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to MagMan, 11-03-2004 05:50:23  
Nope, the A, B, C, and Super A never had water pumps (I don't think the cub did either). They were entirely dependent on gravity. It wasn't until the C-123 (v.s. the C-113) engine came along that they modernised the cooling system. Hope this helps, SAm in NS



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Red Dave

11-03-2004 05:02:09




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to ffolkes, 11-03-2004 04:26:22  
At the bottom of the water chamber around the sleeves there are 4 holes that allow water to travel up from the lower water inlet. I think these are the nickle sized holes gene b is refering to. If they are blocked, coolant will not flow up past the sleeves into the head then into the top of the radiator.

On my B I had to take the head off and poke a screwdriver down through the water passages beside the cylinders to unblock the holes. I flushed 2 handfuls of rust and scale out of my block that way.

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ffolkes

11-03-2004 05:14:55




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to Red Dave, 11-03-2004 05:02:09  
Again, if I put a garden hose in the top casting (the outlet), it pours out the bottom. Doesn't this mean there would be enough flow to make the bottom of the radiator not be ice cold?

Thanks.

ffolkes



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Red Dave

11-03-2004 07:12:22




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to ffolkes, 11-03-2004 05:14:55  
It's getting through somewhere certainly, but if all four aren't open, you could still have trouble.
The bottom of my radiator normally runs fairly cool to the touch.
Go to the discount store and buy a cheap meat thermometer. Run the tractor until it's hot and take the radiator cap off and put the thermometer in. There shouldn't be any pressure, but be careful anyway. My B runs anywhere from 165 to 195 deg F.
You could also retrofit a water pump from a C or a Super A. It would go on in place of the lower water inlet. A longer generator belt turns it.

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dave

11-03-2004 05:34:17




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to ffolkes, 11-03-2004 05:14:55  
I had that problem on my A,when I changed the water.Turned out pure antifreeze wouldn't circulate.I mixed in water and it started cooling correctly again.Something about pure antifreeze wont expand like water,so it wouldnt perk.



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Andy Martin

11-03-2004 10:04:26




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to dave, 11-03-2004 05:34:17  
Pure anti-freeze is not a good idea because it will freeze at a higher temperature than the optimum mix.

Something a little over 1/2 anti-freeze is the best mixture. It is where the chart stops on the jug. If you exceed their recommendation you lose freeze protection.



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parts man

11-03-2004 18:16:54




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 Re: Puzzling cooling problem on BN in reply to Andy Martin, 11-03-2004 10:04:26  
The coolant and water should also be mixed before adding because of the thermosyphon sytem, it doesn't tend to mix well in the system.



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