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Take a look and tell me what it is.

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Okie Dave

09-30-2004 19:56:59

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Here are some pictures of a tractor I recently bought, no one seems to agree on what year,model, or hp it is, the ser. no is A430003B001440 and it's made in Great Britain. It's a good strong running tractor just looks like a rag, I am going to try to restore it, Here is a link to some pictures. Any help appreciated. Thanks

The Beast

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Big Don

10-02-2004 09:08:59

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 09-30-2004 19:56:59

Dave,
I am almost positive that your tractor is a 364.
To the best of my knowledge, the 364 and the 444 British are the same basic tractor. The 444 British was imported and sold in Canada with the BD154 in the diesel and the BC144 in the gas version. At the same time, the US needed a tractor in that size range and they had previously used the 444 model designation so they called the British 444 a 364. Your tractor has inside check chains which is a US type of hitch, while the 444 British that came to Canada had the outside style check chains on the hitch.
The 354 diesel uses the BD144 engine. As a result, I would conclude that you have a 364.The 444 British that was sold in Canada was rated at approx. 38 PTO horsepower but some were "HOT" and would put up 45 or so. I assume the 364 was the same specs. The serial number contains the model info but without a pricebook from that era I can't tell you what it means. The first part of the number is a Kind 43 and code 0003 which was the IH ordering codes and thus the model but they never used these numbers in the after sales support system as a way to identify the unit.
Don

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Hugh MacKay

10-02-2004 00:33:20

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 09-30-2004 19:56:59

Dave: Your tractor is the British version of the 444 model. That is the model sold here in Canada back when they were new. It's probably a tractor someone bought in Canada and imported to the US.

I know your going to say it doesn't look like the US built 444, and your right US version has swept back front axle. In fact I think very little more than the engine is the same.

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Hugh MacKay

10-02-2004 16:57:04

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 10-02-2004 04:42:02

Dave: There is a guy by the name of Milton Fox, posted on here quite regularly at one time. Haven't seen him much lately. He has a wealth of information on those British tractor serial numbers. You might try giving Milton a shout.

I am reasonably sure what I see in your photos is the British built 444, although I must admit I have never seen a 364 that you speak of. Seems to me I remember a 354 coming to Canada from Britain.

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Okie Dave

10-02-2004 18:23:59

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-02-2004 16:57:04

From what I understand the 354 was exactly like the 364 but a little older and had a gas engine, of course that is just what ive heard here on the forum. All of the pictures of the 444 which is older yet has flat topped fenders on them, this one has the rounded fenders and I think the headlights were in the grill but there again i'm not sure.

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Hugh MacKay

10-03-2004 18:03:53

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 10-02-2004 18:23:59

Dave: The British built 444 had the rounded fenders, and head lights in the grill. I notice one guy suggested check chains, those will install either way. I looked at your photos again today. What make of injection pump does your tractor have? My memory is a bit rough on this but somehow that pump doesn't look right for a British built 444. I have a copy of the Canadian IH buyers guide for 1975 and was comparing your tractor to the new tractor in that guide. All British built 444 that I have seen here have upright mufler, as does the one in the guide.

I notice you didn't find Milton yet. If you don't by Mon. evening try a fresh thread, he may have been away for weekend.

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Okie Dave

10-03-2004 19:37:53

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-03-2004 18:03:53

Hi again Hugh, I don't know what kind of fuel pump it is I'll take a look at it in the morning and post it, the guy I got the tractor from said that it only has around 30 hours on it since it was completely overhauled, new crank, rods, sleves, rebuilt fuel pump, rebuilt hyd pump, and lift cyl. The way it runs the old guy that did it really knew what he was doing, this thing runs as good as a new one, and has more power that it needs. He is sorry he got rid of it, he traded it in because he was having trouble finding a loader for it, for a Kubota with a loader. He ask me if id sell it back to him and I just smiled.

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Hugh MacKay

10-09-2004 13:41:34

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 10-03-2004 19:37:53

Dave: Did you ever catch up with Milton Fox? I see he responded to a question on page 1 re: Australian Farmalls. He posted his e mail and even mailing address.

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Okie Dave

10-09-2004 15:49:44

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-09-2004 13:41:34

No I didn't but ill check his e-mail out, i am sure this is a model 364 several have sent pictures and it maches exactly. Thanks for the info. Dave

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Okie Dave

10-02-2004 17:57:04

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-02-2004 16:57:04

Thanks Huew, a fellow on the yahoo international site forum, told me that he has a B-414 that looks just like mine, i looked at his pictures and it does look just like the tractor I have except it had a lever on the right side of the transmission that mine dosnt have and i don't know what it was for. Looks like the list gets longer instead of narrowing down what it is, lets see so far I have heard 364, 384, 444, and B-414 this is turning into a cluster, i never dreamed an International would be that hard to identify, as far as model, year, and hp. I'll try to get hold of Mr. Fox and see what he has to say. Thankyou.

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10-01-2004 15:31:26

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 09-30-2004 19:56:59

If you go to the web sight www.mahindrausa.com, you will see a tractor that looks just like yours. A lot of parts for the Mahindra are the same as the British made IH tractors.

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Okie Dave

10-01-2004 16:21:30

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to JT, 10-01-2004 15:31:26

Hi JT, where on the Mahindra site did you look all i could find was thier new tractors no place to search used tractors or parts. Did I miss something? Thanks.

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genep

10-01-2004 19:49:54

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 10-01-2004 16:21:30

I'm not trying to talk for JT, but I think the meaning of his message is that Mahindra is using the castings from the older international tractors to make some of the modern Mahindra, especially the transmission, hydraulic, and brakes parts. I'm told that some Mahindra parts will fit right into the International tractors of the 60's and 70's at a fraction of the cost. The sheet metal is quite different from the International. If you get a chance to visit a Mahindra lot the similarities will be evident.

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10-02-2004 06:08:37

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to genep, 10-01-2004 19:49:54

Hi Genep:
Yes that is what I was referring to. One of the older Mahindra's is an exact duplicate right down to the sheet metal. That tractor is being discontinued, but the hood, fenders, everything are that same as the tractor he has. And parts are still available from Mahindra.

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Okie Dave

10-02-2004 09:03:51

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to JT, 10-02-2004 06:08:37

Hi JT, where on the Mahindra web site do you go to get to parts or show the tractor you are talking about? I added a few pictures of my tractor on my website, oh by the way the engine no. on my tractor is BD-154 ser. no 114922 it is diesel, maybe that will help someone tell me what year and hp it is. Link

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Okie Dave

10-01-2004 20:38:55

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to genep, 10-01-2004 19:49:54

Thanks Genep, i thought he was saying they had used tractors there i could look at. Thanks for the come back I never even heard of a Mahandra before but i'll keep that in mind, I do need to find a tach drive gear and fuel sending unit for mine

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genep

10-01-2004 11:46:42

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 09-30-2004 19:56:59

I have a tractor that was sold to me as a 354, it's a gas engine. It looks exactly like yours in the body, transmission, hitch, dash, steering, etc. All the components of my tractor look like what is shown in the owner, service and parts manuals, so it must be close. I can't tell if your grill is an original or something someone put on it, but mine has the headlights in the grill. Like yours, mine has the numbers in the "model" space, with no numbers in the "serial" space. My complete model/serial number is A470001B000721. I read on one of the boards that the serial numbers on the 354 started with 501. If so, mine is an early one. Maybe some of this info will be of some help in your quest.

PS, It looks like your steering box seal has been leaking..I think it might be common for water to get in the steering box by leaking down the steering column. I just finished putting bearings and seals in mine. If you want to communicate off line I'll be glad to help if I can. Gene

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Okie Dave

10-01-2004 11:57:24

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to genep, 10-01-2004 11:46:42

Hi Gene thanks for the info. if you could send me a picture of your grill then i'd know what was original, someone made mine and put it in there and did away with the headlights, another guy told me this morning that it is a 364, it has a BD-154 diesel engine in it, I'll check out the steering sector I saw the grease there also but it is all dried, where do you check the steering box is it a plug or what?

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genep

10-01-2004 12:32:07

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 10-01-2004 11:57:24

By the way, I have seen a 354 diesel, too. It appeared to have the original paint, decals, etc on it. Check the steering oil by removing the center plate below the dash, under the steering wheel. Up high, near the top of the opening, is a plastic plug in the steering column. It's hard to see without putting your head between the seat and dash. It takes 90 wt. GL 5 (extreme pressure) If you're going to keep the tractor you really should get the manuals for it. The owner's manual shows maintenance, adjustments, and operating facts that will make the tractor more enjoyable and easier to maintain correctly. I'll see if I can find a picture of a grill, they were used for several years/models. Mine has a grille guard on it that would make it hard to see.

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Chadd

10-01-2004 09:54:25

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 09-30-2004 19:56:59

I think that your tractor is an International 354. It is the smaller sibling to the world tractor series.(454, 574, 674) They were all supposedly created at the International plant in Doncaster, England. The 354 gets the same styling as the 454 and 574, but did not get the syncromech 8 speed, rear mounted gas tank, and used smaller motors. All of the World Tractor series tractors were designed to be sold all over the world with the same engines, transmissions, and sheetmetal. Only the placement of warning lights and such changed from country to country. Your tractor is the 1440th off the line. I can't honestly tell you how many 354's were made, but I doubt there were many. The serial number plate, which you show on picture "Beast1" should have two sets of numbers. It should look like this:

Model No. XXXXX

Serial No. A430003B001440

What does the top number (if one exists) say? I would imagine if it is a 354, it should say I-354, but am not sure. I can post tonight or tomorrow the horsepower and stuff because I don't have it memorized. Good luck! If you find out that model number, post it so I know.

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Okie Dave

10-01-2004 12:15:30

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Chadd, 10-01-2004 09:54:25

Hi Chadd, the ser. no is blank on the id plate and the ser. no is where the model no goes. Mine has the syncro trans 8 speed and the rear fuel tank, it has a BD-154 engine which i understand comes in three different hp ratings but I don't know what they are, one guy told me that it was a 364 but still don't know for sure, if it is the hp for the 364 is supposed to be 35 but it seems more powerful than that, it also has cat 2 hookups for the three point. Thanks for the help and would appreciate the specs if you have them.

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Chadd

10-01-2004 12:47:48

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 10-01-2004 12:15:30

Take a look at this picture

Sorry I didn't clarify, when I meant the gas tank was in back, I meant that it sat behind the operator's seat and above the 3pt hitch. As far as I know, you're tractor looks like it is almost identical to a 354 except for the grill (it should look like a smaller version of the grill on a 966 or like the picture I think I attached to this post. . . Also, I didn't know they made a shift setup like that with the syncromesh transmission, the one on our 2500 has it on the left hand side of the seat. Hope this helps, I will get more info later.

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Okie Dave

10-01-2004 15:48:43

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Chadd, 10-01-2004 12:47:48

Hi Chad, I couldn't view the picture all i got is a little box with a red x in it, The fuel tank is at the rear of the hood on this one, the grill is something someone has made and they took the headlights out, i need a picture of one so i'll know what to get, i want to restore the tractor. Thanks.

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carlt420

10-01-2004 08:03:27

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 09-30-2004 19:56:59

looks like a 354.should have a bc144 engine with a lucas starter and zenith carb.years built 72-75 20.6hp 25.75pto hp. nice little utility tractor is it a deisel or gas? deisels i hear are cold blooded.

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genep

10-01-2004 12:04:30

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to carlt420, 10-01-2004 08:03:27

Hey, carlt420, where did you get your horsepower info? all the sites I have found show the PTO hp to be 32.58.

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Okie Dave

10-01-2004 08:12:29

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to carlt420, 10-01-2004 08:03:27

Hi Carl, it has a BD-154 diesel in it, it dosn't seem cold natured but then it's still summer and I just got it, seems no one has a ser. no list on these British built tractors or i've got a freek.

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lee

10-01-2004 06:28:22

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 09-30-2004 19:56:59

It looks much like a 354, 364, series.

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Shawn in MN

10-01-2004 03:24:32

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Another possible site in reply to Okie Dave, 09-30-2004 19:56:59

Hi Dave, I remembered another site that might help you. Red Power web site has a link for british tractors as well. If memory serves me correctly, it is called UK Red.

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Okie Dave

10-01-2004 06:58:28

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Re: Another possible site in reply to Shawn in MN, 10-01-2004 03:24:32

Well guys still no cigar, Shawn what's the www for the red power web site i tried www.redpower.com and got some motorcycle web site, that international web site on Yahoo has a lot of info on it I found one post on there that had a tractor just like mine but it was gas and he also got no replies as to year or model ect. at least i know there is one more like mine out there.

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Okie Dave

10-01-2004 19:24:10

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Re: Another possible site in reply to Okie Dave, 10-01-2004 06:58:28

Ok that did it found the site still looking around but on the posts that have pictures i can't view them, they just show up as little boxes with a red x in them mayby my pc is messed up or something i'll keep trying mayby i can figure it out. Thanks

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Shawn in Mn

10-01-2004 19:17:03

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Re: Another possible site in reply to Okie Dave, 10-01-2004 06:58:28

Try www.redpowermagazine.com this should get you there, click on links.

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Shawn in MN

09-30-2004 20:36:48

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Re: Take a look and tell me what it is. in reply to Okie Dave, 09-30-2004 19:56:59

I posted some information in your previous posts. Hope that it will get you in the right direction. Shawn

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