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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Sleeve interchange with 113 and 123 engines - Stan

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Dan

07-31-2004 18:48:44




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I am about to overhaul my 1958 240. I have found that I have the 3.125" flat top pistons and the thin sleeves with the 3.3125" seal area. I would like to use stepped pistons for an increase in compression, but I dont see a stepped piston kit listed for the 240 in either Valu Bilt or in the tractorkits.com site. They do list a stepped piston kit for the 113" A/B/BN tractors and it specs a 3.3125" seal area with the 3.125" bore. Am I correct to assume these sleeves and pistons will fit in my 240 without a problem? Am I going in the right direction with the stepped pistons in the 240? Are the wrist pins and compression heights the same?
Thanks

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Stan(VA).

08-01-2004 12:58:59




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 Re: Sleeve interchange with 113 and 123 engines - in reply to Dan, 07-31-2004 18:48:44  
Dan,
As far as interchangeability of (A/B/C) C113 overbore kits and the C123 (x30/x40 series) standard kits; I have heard that the factory ones will not inter-change, but the after market ones will. Never took the time to verify this myself, but the piston differences that Justin is referring to would make that believable as the firecrators have a much more pronounced dome/step height. I put the 3-1/4" stepped head pistons in the last 3 motors I built, and it"s been awhile since I"ve had my hands on a 3-1/8" aftermarket to compare. This is total guesswork, but I would bet that the problem would be trying to use a firecrator designed for a Farmall C in a x40 motor as they (later motors) probably have a smaller combustion chamber. I know they have larger valves and a diff manifold.

The last one I built was a 240U block I rebuilt and put on a 140. I didn"t go with the 3-1/8" pistons because I wanted to punch it out to a C133. So we opened up the O-ring seal area and ordered the 3-1/4" kit (Super C, stepped head kit), then I custom sized thinner O-rings. When I compared the Tisco pistons to the old firecrators (by connecting them together on the same pin), the OEM"s were taller to the top of the piston and taller on the dome. The comparison isn"t apples to apples though since the OEM has a dish beside the dome and an odd shapped profile. More like the side view of a telephone handset, as opposed to a rectange as on the aftermarkets. And remember there are different firecrators; the ones I pulled out of a 230 motor (374339R1) did not have nearly as tall of a dome as the 240 firecrators (374367R1). If you can afford the high altitude firecrators that would probably be the best way to go, if not, try the stepped head aftermarkets. Worst case is you"ll be down a little on compression and you might need to bevel the step a little with your dremel tool; but I doubt it based on my experience. Might also note there are 3 compression rings on the aftermarkets instead of two on the firecrators. Bottom line is that I got 170psi out of it, and it runs great with alot more power than the 140 can hold down. Hope that helps,
Stan(VA).

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Dan P

08-01-2004 15:21:34




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 Re: Sleeve interchange with 113 and 123 engines - in reply to Stan(VA)., 08-01-2004 12:58:59  
Stan
When you say that "worse case you may be down a bit on compression", would I still be higher than with the flattops? Are there any problems with the step interfering with the 140 combustion chamber, both clearence wise and possible shrouding and reduction of airflow?
Thanks



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Stan(VA).

08-01-2004 19:02:01




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 Re: Sleeve interchange with 113 and 123 engines - in reply to Dan P, 08-01-2004 15:21:34  
It depends on the piston manufacturer, I wouldn't know without seeing them side by side or having measurements. And let's just say my experience in getting piston measurements before buying leaves a little to be desired ;) at least related to old tractors vs small block chevy's.

The 'down a bit' was referring to the difference from the high altitude firecrators. I had no clearance issues, and I don't have a flow bench (if shrouding was going to become an issue I would think it would be with a taller dome, not shorter one).
Stan(VA).

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justin

08-01-2004 08:01:40




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 Re: Sleeve interchange with 113 and 123 engines - in reply to Dan, 07-31-2004 18:48:44  
The sleeves in the 240 are the small diameter sealing land. I have NOS IH Firecrater Piston & sleeve sets for teh 240, which have a special step head piston.



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pd455@aol.com

08-01-2004 08:54:12




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 Re: Sleeve interchange with 113 and 123 engines - in reply to justin, 08-01-2004 08:01:40  
Right, they have the small diameter seal area. So then they should interchange with the 113" stepped piston overbore kit, right?



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justin

08-01-2004 09:06:09




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 Re: Sleeve interchange with 113 and 123 engines - in reply to pd455@aol.com, 08-01-2004 08:54:12  
Nope.. The cylinder heads are different, so the position and style of the step on the 230/240 pistons is different than some of the C113 pistons.



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RLS ia

07-31-2004 19:44:47




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 Re: Sleeve interchange with 113 and 123 engines - in reply to Dan, 07-31-2004 18:48:44  
Dan, the 123 sleeves have a larger diameter at the bottom where the packing ring is than the 113 sleeves. Just went thru that when overhauling an A motor.
Good Luck



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