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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus

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DANWV

07-29-2004 21:28:18




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Here is what I have so far:
53 cub
Battery ignition
6 volt positive ground
three position light switch O D B
battery static voltage is 6.19
start tractor and run at 3/4 throttle - get 1 maybe 2 amps CHARGE
turn light switch to "D" amps drop to 0
turn light switch to "B" amps drop to -1
NEW regulator
ground "F" terminal and amp guage pegs to full CHARGING. Means gen is good right?
Gen IS polarized!
will not keep battery charged after running for an hour or two.
My grandfather, whom has passed last year, has had this problem for a long time with this tractor and I have exhausted my knowledge and the knowledge that I have gotten from this forum and I give up.
The tractor acted this way with the original regulator that (I just replaced) and with the regulator from my C which charges, and with the new regulator that I just purchased.
Only thing that is not original is that the little fuse that was in the instrument cluster has been eliminated. Grandad solder the wires together.
When I got the tractor a couple of weeks ago I traced out all the wires and found that the "F" and and the "A" wires from the gen were backwords on the regulator. "F" to "GEN" and "A" to "F". I switched them back and this did not help. I don't think it has hurt the gen because I can get full charge by grounding the "F" terminal.
The gen has three brushes but the third one is NOT adjustable.
So now what?!?!?!?!?

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Old Dutch

08-01-2004 16:23:38




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 Re: Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus in reply to DANWV, 07-29-2004 21:28:18  
Hi Dan: Just out of curiosity, as I was a IH mechanic for 30 some years. Have you checked all grounds on the tractor? What I'am saying is, run wire from mounting bolt on generator to regulator base, from there directly to positive cable on battery. Assuming it is positive ground. This is the only other connection that is assumed to be a direct connection with the battery, and it is not. It has many bolted connections in between. Gen to bracket, bracket to engine, engine to transmission housing, and to rear axle. Plus the ground cable back the other way. Hope you get my meaning of this. Found that to be a problem many times. Not only on Cubs, but many of the bigger ones. Electricity is always looking for an easy way out. Hope this helps, please let me know.

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lee

07-30-2004 10:26:21




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 Re: Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus in reply to DANWV, 07-29-2004 21:28:18  
I bought a re-built generator from a tractor supply with a new regulator. You would think it would be a no brainer and expect problem resolved.
I had a new bat on the tractor. I had re-wired my charging circuit. It was simple and correct. No charge. I took the gen/reg to an old timers Starter/Gen/Alt repair shop. He went thru and cleaned up the gen commutator and adjusted the brushes. He adjusted the regulator to the gen on his tester. He ran it under load for 20 minutes. Final output was 7.5V and 20 amps on his tester. The thing I liked was I now knew I had a good unit. Charge was $20. I bolted it on and problem resolved. Another suggestion might be to re-wire your chgarging circuit with new wire and soldered connectors. If you still have the old wiring and connectors you may not have a good solid circuit. Old wiring may wring out as OK for volts and ohms on any single wire and yet fail to carry the current properly under load. I agree you may have damaged the reg with wiring reversed. Your bat should be replaced with a known good bat or a new bat. If you take your unit to a shop you can hold on bat replacement. If the shop tested unit doesn't work it's your wiring or bat.

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DANWV

07-30-2004 07:47:31




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 Re: Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus in reply to DANWV, 07-29-2004 21:28:18  
I have cleaned and polished all the connection that are on every wire on that tractor. When I put the battery on a 4amp charger it only takes an hour or two to charge it up to full capacity. the battery is not that old and it reads 6.19v to 6.26v when I just checked it this morning.
I did notice one thing this morning, when I started the tractor and went to check the voltage, at the battery, with my digital volt meter, it would not read anything! The lcd screen on the meter just lite up with every symbol that it had on it. Does that make sense to anyone?
It acted like it confused the meter.
Oh and by the way I fixed the wires on the generator that were crossed before I put the new regulator on the tractor. So I don't think I have a bad regulator.
Could it be possible that there is a wire shorting out somewhere on the frame of the tractor causing the meter to act like that?

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Bob

07-30-2004 08:22:41




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 Re: Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus in reply to DANWV, 07-30-2004 07:47:31  
Many digital meters will not work around engine electrical systems because the RF noise given off by the ignition system and the charging system gives their digital guts a headache. This has been brought up several times on this board and the FORD board.

Either use an EXPENSIVE digital meter that can tolerate the ruckus, or get an analog meter. Even a cheapy analog meter will probably work better around engine electricals than a mid-priced digital.

Is your regulator grounded? If it mounts directly, is there clean metal for it to ground to through the mounting pads? If the regulator mounts on rubber grommets for vibration elimination, there will be a ground strap or pigtail that bridges across from the regulator frame to one of the mounting bolts to provide a good ground to the regulator.

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DANWV

07-30-2004 08:49:00




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 Re: Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus in reply to Bob, 07-30-2004 08:22:41  
Bob I have checked all the grounds on the regulator and I can use my digital to check voltage on my C and it gives me the correct readings. It is an expensive meter with filter sofware to eliminate all the interference.
However I believe I have found the problem.
I started looking at all the wiring on the tractor instead of just the connections. Right where the starter cable goes down under the seat I gave the wire a stout tug and the sparks flew all over the place. So I unhooked the battery and I will have to get to it this evening as I am Daddy for the day till Mommy gets home from work.
2yr. old and a 5yr old. Great kids though. I will let you all know what comes of it, and thank you all for your help.

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john *.?-!.* cub owner

07-30-2004 08:21:55




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 Re: Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus in reply to DANWV, 07-30-2004 07:47:31  
Dan, I was raised with the old 6 volt Farmall systems, and still have 2 of them. The output of the charging systems when working properly frequently has enough noise (regulater switching, brushes crossing segments, etc.) to confuse many digital voltmeters. Take a reading with an analog voltmeter. Also it has already been mentioned that you should try another battery. Occasionally batterys will sulphate up and show a false charge that will cause a voltage regulator to shut off, but when force charged (such as when you grounded the F lead) will go ahead and take a charge. When cars and trucks were still 6 volts we would use them in the pickup until they quit charging and then switch them to our H which had the manual charge control (4 position light switch with generator cutout) and could use them there for another year or two due to the tractor force charging it.

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brianh

07-30-2004 06:09:09




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 Re: Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus in reply to DANWV, 07-29-2004 21:28:18  
The fact that you can get full charge with the field grounded does indeed indiate that the generator is OK. You probably damaged the regulator when you had the armature and field wires reversed. Try another regulator. Brian



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Gary_N_WV

07-30-2004 03:08:58




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 Re: Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus in reply to DANWV, 07-29-2004 21:28:18  
Dan, What about your battery?
How old is it?
If you put a charger on the battery, does it take a charge?
I've had a battery or 2 in the past that caused the same indications that you are getting.
Your amp meter indicates the rate of charge, but if your battery won't accept a charge because of internal resistance, then you aren't going to get much of an indication.

How about all your wiring connections?
Clean, bright and tight is the rule here.

Don't know if this helps any !

Gary

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The Red Baron

07-30-2004 06:18:57




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 Re: Ok I'm done. I need one of you wiring gurus in reply to Gary_N_WV, 07-30-2004 03:08:58  
I'm with Gary on this one. As an electrician it sounds to me strongly like a battery issue.



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