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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Generator won't polarize properly? - ammeter alway

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Ted

07-26-2004 12:28:30




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When I start my farmall A, the ammeter always shows -10 amp (discharge) a few seconds after starting (once the points close on the Voltage regulator). I have replaced all the wiring, torn the generator down to make sure that all the contacts are good, tested the generator unhooked to the Voltage Regulator (it showed 10 v) and replaced the voltage regulator. I've tried polarizing (by momentarily shorting out the A terminal with the BAT terminal) several times. I can't get this thing figured out and to charge positive.

I have installed an 8v battery. could this be part of the problem?

OR

the generator is off of a super C. Were they negative ground by any chance?

I'm stuck and getting frustrated. - thanks

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Your Brother

07-27-2004 07:41:41




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 Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammeter a in reply to Ted, 07-26-2004 12:28:30  
Ted,

The only Farmal you should be drving is a Super M. Of course, I prefer the modified Super M with a Chevy 350. There is no great rush than cultivating at 75 mph.



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lee

07-26-2004 22:53:10




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 Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammeter a in reply to Ted, 07-26-2004 12:28:30  
I never really had a problem with the 6 volt system if all (gen, bat, reg) is in good working order. If you take the gen/reg to an old timers starter/generator repair shop he'll check it out and repair as required and adjust the gen/reg for around what Allen said 7.5V and you might get 20 amps on a good day. If you take it home and hang an 8 volt bat on that it can't charge it cause it cuts out at 7.5v. So you'll have to take it back to the old timer and convince him to try and tweak up to put out 9.5 V and 20 amps on a better day. I think that's gonna take some doin cause that old timer's gonna be all over you and ain't gonna wanna do it and the old gen has all it can do to charge a 6 volt bat anyway. So, go back to a 6 volt bat or make a 12v conversion with an alt.

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Alan Clark

07-26-2004 19:00:04




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 Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammeter a in reply to Ted, 07-26-2004 12:28:30  
Hi Ted

I think your ammeter is connected correctly because it shows a discharge with the lights ON.

If you have an volt battery installed with NO adjustments to the charging system then I would expect to see events exactly as you describe.A 12volt system is at 14.4/14.5 maximum when charging, a 6volt system is approx 7.2/7.5, in other words they are always a higher voltage than the battery.
With an 8 volt battery installed your system would be charging at say 7.5volts and the battery may be at say 8.5 volts. ie higher than the generator and I would therefore expect the discharge.
Bob M will no doubt help out if you are really stuck as he knows these systems inside out

hope this helps


Alan Ontario

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ted

07-27-2004 06:56:09




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 Re: Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammet in reply to Alan Clark, 07-26-2004 19:00:04  
I checked the ammeter last night, and it is connected correctly.

My guess is that the comments are correct about the charging rate and the voltage regulator being out of sinc. I will try to find a local shop who can help me with this one and either adjust the VR or whatever I need to to to get this thing charging again.

thanks for all the comments



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lee

07-27-2004 08:31:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - a in reply to ted, 07-27-2004 06:56:09  
Ted, please post a follow-up on the shop recommendations. I am interested to hear their comments. If they can tweak it up, I'd be interested to hear the results for output and charge rate. Good luck. Thanks , Lee



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Hermit

07-26-2004 18:59:33




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 Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammeter a in reply to Ted, 07-26-2004 12:28:30  
Another way to check charging - Hook up a voltmeter to the battery before starting engine and note voltage. Start engine and read running voltage. If the voltage increased, the charging system is working. You may have to increase engine RPM to see the charging indication.



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Alan Clark

07-26-2004 18:55:42




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 Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammeter a in reply to Ted, 07-26-2004 12:28:30  
Hi Ted

I think your ammeter is connected correctly because it shows a discharge with the lights ON.

If you have an volt battery installed with NO adjustments to the charging system then I would expect to see events exactly as you describe.A 12volt system is at 14.4/14.5 maximum when charging, a 6volt system is approx 7.2/7.5, in other words they are always a higher voltage than the battery.
With an 8 volt battery installed your system would be charging at say 7.5volts and the battery may be at say 8.5 volts. ie higher than the generator and I would therefore expect the discharge.
Bob M will no doubt help out if you are really stuck as he knows these systems inside out

hope this helps


Alan Ontario

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CNKS

07-26-2004 18:32:25




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 Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammeter a in reply to Ted, 07-26-2004 12:28:30  
All letter series tractors were positive ground. I agree with the other posts that the leads are probably reversed on your ammeter. -10 amps sounds like too much discharge if your regulator/generator is working properly. That is much more like what it should be on the + side with initial startup, before the lost charge on starting is regained. One thing I have never seen mentioned on this board: Although you can use either negative or positive ground, the Delco regulators for IH tractors are marked "6 volt positive ground", I believe on the underside. I was told by an older automotive electrical person that the two sets of contacts are made of different materials, and that if you use negative ground the regulator will not last as long. This guy has a LOT of experience, probably 40 years on 6 and 12 volt systems, I believe he knows what he is talking about.

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Jim Becker

07-26-2004 19:54:18




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 Re: Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammet in reply to CNKS, 07-26-2004 18:32:25  
What the old timer told you is exactly right.



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lee

07-26-2004 17:35:20




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 Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammeter a in reply to Ted, 07-26-2004 12:28:30  
I may be wrong but I don't thing that regulator is calibrated to charge an 8 volt bat. Put a 6 volt bat in it and see if it works, then try your 8 volt. Are you sure you can do an 8 volt bat with the old gen and reg?



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Peabody

07-26-2004 12:41:26




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 Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammeter a in reply to Ted, 07-26-2004 12:28:30  
Sounds like you've got the wires reversed on the ammeter.



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Ted

07-26-2004 12:52:21




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 Re: Re: Generator won't polarize properly? - ammet in reply to Peabody, 07-26-2004 12:41:26  
Re: ammeter reversal. Thanks. I have thought of that, but haven't formally tested it in isolation. When one turns on the lights though, it decreases in the proper direction (discharge). (even though right now I have all unnessesary wires un-hooked) The wiring is per the schematic in the repair guide. Tonight, I will test the ammeter in isolation.



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