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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Time to start asking 460 questions

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Kelly C

07-17-2004 19:23:00




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Ok here is the 1st one.
Starts fine, Idles ok with a slight miss.
When you give it some gas it sputters real bad and runs rough.
If you give it the gas fast it starves and dies.
You can get to full throttle if you go slow but still sputters.
If you move the trottle by pulling the rod between the govoner and the carb it works a little better but still sputters and dies if moved to fast. I can feel the govoner pull back on the linkage some times.

So far I have checked the fuel line to the carb and that is ok and the little screen at the carb is clear.

Whats next old givers of IH wisdom?

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Sean in Calgary

07-19-2004 15:39:50




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 Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-17-2004 19:23:00  
I have seen a bunch of posts on here about what you want to spray to look for intake manifold leaks. If you have ever looked for vacuum leaks in newer cars you know what a bear that nightmare maze of capillary tubes can be. A leak in a manifold gasket can be diagnosed in exactly the same way. Although the WD-40 will work more or less and so will oil or carb cleaner, they all get rather messy. An old mechanic friend taught me to look for these leaks using a propane torch that isn't lit. When you aim the blowing propane over the vacuum leak (capillar tube or intake manifold) it will suck in the propane, which burns nicely in the engine and leaves no residue. Obviously, if I am doing this for more than a second, I make sure some barn doors are open.

So, for a nice clean way to find vacuum leaks, use your handy old propane torch - just not lit.

Sean in Calgary

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ChadS

07-19-2004 12:30:07




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 Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-17-2004 19:23:00  
Dear Kelly, I had the same problem in a C-263, I put into one of my pulling tractors. I call the condition you described,, "The famous IH 6 cyl stutter" It is a combination of 2 things, carb and plugs. the carb venturi is pretty large in the carb, I used a smaller venturi out of an M to give it a bit more vacuum when I gave it the gas, it worked very well, then I moved on to the distributor. I found that the mechanical advances were stuck, the distributor otherwise was in good shape,, New points, condensor, and freed up the mechanical advance,, then off to the dyno. I worked the engine for a while, at low rpms, to warm it up, opend the throttle, and it sputtered and died again. It started right back up, with out choking it, usually this engine had to be choked for a while to start, Anyways, shut off the dyno, and richened the main jet adjustment, opened the throttle all the way to high load speed, and reset the carb,, with out the dyno,, till it stopped sputtering, then turned on the dyno once more, after I got it dialed in with the timing, at 28 degrees adv, and the fuel screw set right, it fires right up without choking it, cold, stays running, and dont misfire through out the rpms,,

Another idea would be to run a compression test, it may have a bad valve, or one starting to burn, the 6 cyl were famous for that. if the compression checks out,, then move on. Hope this helps a bit, ChadS

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Aces

07-18-2004 12:58:02




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 Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-17-2004 19:23:00  
Kelly don't forget the heat rizer in the exhaust manifold the 460 was bad for what you discribe and if the heat rizer is bad all the rest will be in vain.



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Kelly C

07-18-2004 21:04:18




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 Re: Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Aces, 07-18-2004 12:58:02  
OK I give... Explain this heat riser thing and what it does?

I pulled the dist cap and it looks like new inside. I think they tried that part of a tune up before they gave up on it.
I bet the fix is going to be deeper than a quickie.

Some one else mentioned advance weights on the dist.

Wish I was better at trouble shooting these things. Fixin them is easy its the finding what to fix thats a bear.
Seems that I need another book. Any one recomend a good trouble shooting manual for these?

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riverbend

07-19-2004 16:43:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-18-2004 21:04:18  
I don't know about the heat riser, but the advance weights and springs are under the plate that the points mount on. When you look at them, it will be obvious if there is a problem

A compression test is not a bad idea. When my H missed at idle, it was bad valves, it did fine when opening the throttle.

Could your emulsion tube (metering nozzle on an H) in the carb be plugged up ? If the tractor was left sitting with gas in the tank, the fuel residue would be down around the main jet / metering nozzle. The idle circuit would probably be high enough to be okay.

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lee

07-18-2004 09:10:58




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 Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-17-2004 19:23:00  
A carb cleaning is an easy task so I'd just go thru it. I'd flush the whole fuel system tank to carb. Soak the carb and put a kit in it. Give it a works tune up on the ignition system and fix the gov.



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Dave560

07-18-2004 08:48:36




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 Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-17-2004 19:23:00  
I started the tractor you bought at the auction and noticed the same thing. My first thought was a carb rebuild. Second thought, advance weights in distributor were worn or sticking. You will be hard pressed to hear a vaccuum leak on the carb gaskets with the engine running, as the engine will run louder than the gasket leak noise. With the tractor running, spray a little carb cleaner around the throttle shafts, and the gaskets on the carb and intake and see if you notice and change in RPM, indicating a intake gasket leak.

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Dave BN

07-18-2004 05:40:47




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 Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-17-2004 19:23:00  
Does it run OK at a given speed or does it speed up and slow down (beyond what the govenor would do)? If it doesn't run at a constant speed I would look at rebuilding the carburetor. It might be sucking air around the throttle shaft or choke shaft. Try moving those shafts up and down by hand right by the body of the carburetor. Dave.



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riverbend

07-17-2004 20:14:55




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 Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-17-2004 19:23:00  
First guess, leaking manifold or carb gasket.



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Kelly C

07-17-2004 20:48:51




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 Re: Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to riverbend, 07-17-2004 20:14:55  
Thanks.
I hadnt though about that yet. I didnt notice any sucking sounds from the carb gasket or the manifold. Would spraying wd40 around the gasket areas and the observing be a good way to check that?



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riverbend

07-18-2004 20:34:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-17-2004 20:48:51  
I like carb cleaner, it comes with a straw to put it where you want it. It will make the engine speed up or smooth out as the mixture gets closer to right. Motor oil will also work, but it can get hot enough to catch fire before it evaporates. Let us know what you find.

Greg



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Kelly C

07-18-2004 21:09:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to riverbend, 07-18-2004 20:34:14  
Ok that was not it. Tried some wd 40 and found no leaks at the carb or the intake manifold.
On to the next task.



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Allan in NE

07-18-2004 00:05:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Time to start asking 460 questions in reply to Kelly C, 07-17-2004 20:48:51  
Kelly,

Why don't you just give the high side another half turn out and see if she cleans up?

Bet someone was trying to run 'er lean to keep that fuel consumption down.

Just a thought,

Allan



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