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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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More timing question on a '47 H

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Dave in CT

06-25-2004 09:01:47




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I've got battery ignition on my '47 H and it sounds from the manuals and posts here like one is supposed to static time it to TDC (1st notch on the crankshaft pulley) or, some folks have said, just a hair past TDC. I'm used to timing to the 2nd notch from VWs. My engine starts and runs pretty well. When I go to confirm the timing with a timing light - as I gas it to higher RPMs - I don't see the pointer move in relation to where it's lined up on the crankshaft pulley. I don't really get the location hopping around - where it lines up is steady - so I'm taking this to be another indication (besides compression and oil pressure) that the engine is in O.K. shape. Does this indicate I have something wrong with the advance? It has pretty good power at the higher RPMs so this is more of a 'trying to understand' than 'how to fix' question.

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Bob M

06-25-2004 09:26:53




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 Re: More timing question on a '47 H in reply to Dave in CT, 06-25-2004 09:01:47  
Dave – You’re right. Your observation the timing mark doesn’t “jump around” is an indication the motor is in good mechanical shape – no backlash slop in the timing gears, distributor bearings are in good shape, etc. However that the timing mark doesn’t advance as RPM’s increase means the centrifugal advance is not working. Could be the advance mechanism is simply stuck from sitting, or could mean broken/missing parts inside.

If the centrifugal advance is working the timing notch will align with the pointer at low idle and will move farther away from the pointer (in the opposite direction of pulley rotation) as RPMs go up. Full advance is 40 deg BTDC – about 2” or so on the pulley rim.

The motor will run and pull with an inoperative advance mechanism. But it will have more power, run cooler and burn less fuel with the advance working.

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Dave in CT

06-25-2004 10:14:40




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 Re: Re: More timing question on a '47 H in reply to Bob M, 06-25-2004 09:26:53  
Thanks for the fast answer. There are four marks on my crankshaft pulley which I imagine to be thus: 1st - TDC for cyl 1, 2nd is at 4 or 9 degrees ATDC (can't remember which), 3rd may be the 40 degree mark ATDC you're talking about being correct for fully-advanced and the 4th is 180 degrees from No. 1 TDC. Is this right?

I have the I&T IH-8 manual that has an exploded view of a 'typical' battery ignition distributor. According to that view, I would be investigating the existence and proper operation of what they call 'Governor weight' and 'Governor spring' (or what I would call centrifugal advance weight and return spring) for the distributor. Is this correct - am I following you right?

If I could squeeze one more question in here - I've the I&T manual and a Blue Ribbon manual (GSS-5032) _Farmall -H and 4 Series Tractors & Power Units_ that appears to be from IH but I hear of dealer service manuals. Are those dealer service manuals different from the Blue Ribbon manuals? The Blue Ribbon manual goes into the magneto but not the battery ignition distributor. Thanks again for your help. I was surprised to hear it would run as O.K. as it does without advance.

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Theman

06-25-2004 11:16:09




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 Re: Re: Re: More timing question on a '47 H in reply to Dave in CT, 06-25-2004 10:14:40  
The 3rd notch you're talking about aligns the grease fitting in the flywheel with the small hole in the bottom of the clutch housing. This is so you can lube the pilot bearing. I don't have an I&T manual, so I'm unsure as to whether it is covered in there or not.



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Bob M

06-25-2004 11:01:03




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 Re: Re: Re: More timing question on a '47 H in reply to Dave in CT, 06-25-2004 10:14:40  
Not sure what those other timing marks are (my experience is limited to the “super” series H & M - they have marks only at TDC and 35 deg). My guess is the 4 deg ATDC mark is for magneto impulse setting. (When a mag impulse trip point is set after TDC the engine absolutely cannot kick backward while being hand cranked). The 180 deg mark is useful only when setting the valve lash on #2 and #3 cylinders.

My IHC parts manuals call out the distributor centrifugal advance weights/springs as “governor weight” and “governor spring”. Don't know why they did that - it seems confusing to me too…

Cannot answer your Blue Ribbon manual question. I’ve got the I&T manual + IHC parts catalogs for both my tractors. So far these have been adequate for my purposes – though the I&T is pretty vague on electrical system maintenance and ignition timing procedures.

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riverbend

06-25-2004 20:32:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: More timing question on a '47 H in reply to Bob M, 06-25-2004 11:01:03  
The IH manual seems to cover the engine in more detail than the IT, but falls down on the rest of the tractor. The operators manual does a good job with routine stuff like timing, etc. The parts book has all those illustrations and assemblies information. You should check out Bob M's website for electrical stuff. It is great.



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