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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Super

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Ken

06-05-2004 04:02:04




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I would like to know the difference
between a H and a Super H. Thank You




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Farmallkid

06-05-2004 07:37:50




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 Re: Super in reply to Ken, 06-05-2004 04:02:04  
There are lots of differances between the 2 tractors. The stage one super had plain hydraulics, the stage 2 had live hydraulics. and other things like Carb size, chassis, clutch size, Gear shifter and tranny, front wheels changed ,brakes from band to disk. I'm just getting this info from guy fays letter series book, Maybe if you post another message with a title like QUESTION FOR GUY GAY ABOUT SUPER H, then the chances are pretty good that you would get him, or you can by the book, its a great book.

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Paul in Mich

06-05-2004 15:57:04




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 Re: Re: Super in reply to Farmallkid, 06-05-2004 07:37:50  
Dont't forget, the decals were different too....Ha.



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Hugh MacKay

06-05-2004 12:06:19




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 Re: Re: Super in reply to Farmallkid, 06-05-2004 07:37:50  
Mitch: Most of what you talk about except the hydraulics were indeed on the 51 H. I know of 3 ot them came from the factory with IH disc brakes, newer type wheels. I'm not certain but the engine may have been SH as well.

You should have pointed out, serial number and casting numbers are the only sure way to tell.



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CNKS

06-05-2004 12:54:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Super in reply to Hugh MacKay, 06-05-2004 12:06:19  
The "newer type" wheels were on my dad's 47 H. I imagine the disks on the 3 H's you refer to were Lambert, as the Super H brakes did not appear until the last 400 or so H's in 1953. Not impossible, just unlikely, since we are talking about a period of over a year. I could believe the engine change at about the time of the brake change, but not in 1951.



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Hugh MacKay

06-05-2004 17:05:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Super in reply to CNKS, 06-05-2004 12:54:33  
CNKS: The brake parts in our 51 H would interchange with the 300, that is what I base that on. My dad kept three sets of discs, one in each tractor and a set he roughed up with a rasp ready for service. Now if Lambert will interchange they may well have been Lambert.

On the engine dad bought the new H in 51 and 300 new in 55. To be honest with you we did noy notice the kind of power increase one can readily read about here in discussions. Yes the 300 had the advantage of TA and IPTO. We pulled the same No. 8 2x14 plow, same 8' disk and same 9' cultivator. Prior the the H my dad had a 42 W4 and that is where he noticed the big difference, switching from W4 to the H. I'll grant you there was some difference between H and 300, but nothing as noticeable as between W4 and H.

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CNKS

06-05-2004 19:37:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super in reply to Hugh MacKay, 06-05-2004 17:05:23  
I can't compare the H to the 300, because I have never driven a 300. I have an H and Super H, don't use either much. The Super H should pull more than the H in 2nd gear, but 2nd gear in the SH is 3/8 mph faster than in the H, so part of the advantage in noticable pulling power gets canceled out by speed. Third gear in the SH is about equal to 4th in the H, so the same thing applies only to a greater degree. That's probably why you didn't notice a great difference in the amount your 300 pulled (excluding the TA), but you were going faster. The speeds in the 300 were slightly faster than the Super H speeds, and the 300 only had a couple HP more than the Super H. I don't consider the 5+ mph or 6+ mph 4th gears in either tractor tillage gears, unless you are pulling a small implement, or going very shallow. Likewise 1st gear would never be used for extended periods of time, or you'd never get done. So, if you don't run constantly in the TA range, it appears that the H, SH, and 300 should be used for the same size implements,as you said, but you would be going faster, other things, such as tires, being equal.

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Hugh MacKay

06-06-2004 03:11:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super in reply to CNKS, 06-05-2004 19:37:41  
CNKS: Don't talk to me that way, I'm not that stupid. We geared the tractor to suit the job, and if that made it necessary to use a lower gear in one tractor over the other so be it.

You should stop using all those crappy books you buy and pay a bit more attention to what some people are saying in discussion. IH was not that well organized that those guys can write with any degree of accuracy.

If you look at specs there should be little change all the way from 1939 to the last H. The big change in specs came from H to SH. The Super H and 300 should be quite close as well. If that be fact, my dad should not have noticed any great difference between W4 and the H. But that is not the case, where the difference came was between those two, and not between H and 300.

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CNKS

06-06-2004 11:16:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super in reply to Hugh MacKay, 06-06-2004 03:11:38  
Hugh, I did NOT say or even imply that you were stupid. I was merely trying to explain why you probably did not notice much increase in power between the H, SH, 300. The info I gave you except for the 300, which I don't have did not come from my (expletive deleted) books, it is in the specs at the end of the operator's manual for each tractor. I agree that the big jump is from the H to the Super H, but if you increase ground speed, that will eliminate part of the increase in HP, which means you cannot necessarily pull a larger implement. I'm not contradicting anything you said about the W4/H because other than the engine, there were few similarities between the two tractors. If IH would have left the gears alone, I am sure you would have noticed a 21%+ power increase between the H and Super H. I could tell the difference in my dad's H even after an overhaul, as it got pretty bad before it got worked on. I use books as a source of information that I can't get otherwise. I own five letter series Farmalls and am fully capable of separating the "wheat from the chaff" in those books. Sometimes they are right, sometimes not. I scan them before I buy, I have put several back on the shelf, the ones I have are pretty accurate. I know you gear the tractor to the load you are pulling, I'm not stupid either. We plowed with our H in second, disk and other finish implements were usually pulled in 3rd. 4th was seldom used. With a Super H geared the same as an H, I am sure we could have either increased the size of the finishing implements, or increased the speed to 4th a lot of the time. The preceding sentence is what I meant to say in my rambling other garbage.

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Hugh MacKay

06-06-2004 19:20:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super in reply to CNKS, 06-06-2004 11:16:21  
CNKS: I have operated a Super H some and aside from TA and IPTO, really quite hard to pick out much differences both in speeds and power. I suspect the transmissions (5 speeds) are the same. I have done a lot of varried work with 300 as that tractor was around our farm close to 4 decades. Most of the work I would have done with that 51 H would have been tillage. About the only job I ever got to do with the W4 was wagon and hayloader. I was only 9 when dad traded that off for the H.

The first time I ever disked with the 300 I said to my dad, " without TA that tractor wouldn't have much more wallop than the H." Dad who by then had done a lot more work with all three than I, said, "The big difference is between H and W4 not between H and 300." Dad was not the type of guy to put the tractor a gear higher just because it would pull it. His plowing all could have passed as competition plowing.

The W4 and H, are quite close on hp specs, and there is more in common than engine. While the castings are different, I think you will find many similarities within. I'm thinking the ratios to the rear axle are exactly the same, and having a wider, smaller diameter rear tire, statistically should give the W4 advantage. After all that is what the standards were built for, pulling where traction was never a problem.

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nebraska cowman

06-05-2004 10:32:25




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 Re: Re: Super in reply to Farmallkid, 06-05-2004 07:37:50  
Oh Mitch, you crack me up!



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JON

06-05-2004 07:26:23




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 Re: Super in reply to Ken, 06-05-2004 04:02:04  
POWER,CARB,DISC BRAKES,LIVE HYDROLICS,ARE SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES



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