Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Straighten Me Out

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Allan

05-13-2004 11:40:22




Report to Moderator

Somebody set me straight,

Did a straight M only have 25 horse at the drawbar? I thought they had more than that.

If so, then a H with the pop-ups has more power at roughly 27-30 horse?

My "Red" mech made the statement that the popups will make a H into a M powerwise.

Whadda think?

Allan




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
CNKS

05-13-2004 19:39:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to Allan, 05-13-2004 11:40:22  
IH drawbar ratings for the H was 25 and a fraction, the M was 34 and a fraction. I don't think there was any factory power increases in either until the Super H and M came out. They were available with gas, kerosene, and distillate engines, most would have been gasoline after WWII. The non-gas engines produced less HP regardless of the fuel that was used. Different style pistons were offered by IH for rebuilds, if installed they would produce more power. I don't think you can make an H into an M without reboring. The Super H had about 31 drawbar, the 300 HP would be pretty close to the old M, but it's still not an M because of the weight. The M weighed more than 1300 lbs more than the H. I suppose a 300 weighted so that it weighed as much as a stripped M would pull as much, but both would have to be pulling in gears that had the same speed, to be fair. Also the M produced its power at a lower rpm than the H. Pullers with highly modified tractors might disagree, but for farm purposes, an H is not an M, even with firecraters. As to the NE tests, when I look at them comparisons are difficult to make, because they don't seem to weight the tractors the same or run them in the same gear. I suppose they optimize the tractor for the way it should be set up, but this sometimes gives an unfair weight/transmission gear combination. Probably why I'm not an engineer.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

05-13-2004 14:29:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to Allan, 05-13-2004 11:40:22  
Allan: I agree with others, probably a little confusion between flywheel, PTO or belt and drawbar horse power. You can do lot of modifications with a particular tractor for a 5 minute pull. Try putting them under maximum load for 5000 hours.

This is why Nebraska tests were so valuable. You could look at the flywheel horse power, compare with PTO and drawbar. Right away it told you how efficiently that tractor transfered it hp into actual work. Remember those tests Mr Larsen did at Nebraska, they were not a 90 second pull down a track. They were an endurance test. I just forget how long the pull and dyno tests lasted, but he brough more than one ot the tractors to their knees, so to speak.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joe Evans

05-14-2004 07:34:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-13-2004 14:29:30  
Hugh: the MAXIMUM BRAKE HORSEPOWER test lasted two hours. That is, indeed, and endurance test! During this period (as you probably know) fuel economy figures were recorded. There were some tractors that broke during this test, but the vast majority did fine--a testimonial to engineering. Little wonder that it is not unusual for tractors to accumulate tens of thousands of hours of use before major rebuilds.

I believe the MAXIMUM DRAWBAR HP test also lasted for two hours. There was also a 10 hour marathon drawbar test where (I think) this was done at 75% maximum pull. This test was done for reliability review and also fuel economy.

I'm likely a bit fuzzy on the test parameters. C.H. Wendel has a good section on the test parameters in his book "Nebraska Tractor Tests Since 1920". Quite fascinating reading, and it illustrates how in-depth Nebraska wanted to get with respect to data.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

05-14-2004 09:48:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to Joe Evans, 05-14-2004 07:34:20  
Joe: I read a lot of ths years ago. You could make some real good judgement calls when buying a new tractor back then. I wonder if they are doing the job as well today. Most sales literature you look at today never indicates whether it is flywheel, PTO or drawbar hp. 40 years ago manufacturers were proud to advertize the Nebraska test in their sales literature.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Allan

05-13-2004 14:45:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to Hugh MacKay, 05-13-2004 14:29:30  
Hugh,

You hit the nail on the head there. It doesn't matter what the charts say, it is what they will do in everyday practice.

We used to use a Fox pull-type enslige cutter to make sileage every fall. That old gal would separate the tractors from the lawn mowers in a hurry.

Allan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

05-13-2004 19:03:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to Allan, 05-13-2004 14:45:06  
Allen: I've never worked a Fox, did check one out once for price, and decided on the NH 890. To me that Fox looked like a real diesel fuel sucker. I guess my biggest reason for going NH was dealer and NH reputation for ease of operation. I traded a S-717 on the 890 and since my haying equipment was all NH, I was used to that equipment.

In our area back in the 60s and 70s it didn't matter what color the tractor up front was NH had the hay and forage equipment business sewed up.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dhermesc

05-13-2004 13:52:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to Allan, 05-13-2004 11:40:22  
Depends on the years. The M, when introduced in 1939, was only rated about 25 hp at the draw bar (please don't beat me up on the exact ratings) and steadily increased in power throughout its production run. The H started out at about 19(?) and it too increased in power throughout its production run too. So a 1951 H can have as much or more power then say a 1940 M, but it doesn't have quite the torque or weight to do the same job.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Allan

05-13-2004 14:16:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to dhermesc, 05-13-2004 13:52:43  
There ya go!

I know these two are entirely different classes of tractors, but when my mech said this statement, it made me wonder, so I went and looked up the DB specs of both tractors.

Also, before the big housecleaning of the early eighties, I had a H with the popups installed.

When I bought this '51 last year it doesn't have 'em and the difference is like night and day; this one is pretty puny comparied to that repowered one.

Thanks guys,

Allan

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
rustyfarmall

05-13-2004 13:35:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to Allan, 05-13-2004 11:40:22  
I think you are confusing drawbar horsepower with pto or belt horsepower, the M was rated at 36 pto or belt HP, the H was rated at 26. Actual horsepower at the drawbar would be less for both of them. It is possible to increase the power of an H to match that of an M, but if you make the same modifications to an M, it will have more power than the H. You have to compare apples to apples.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Aces

05-13-2004 12:49:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: Straighten Me Out in reply to Allan, 05-13-2004 11:40:22  
Allan I worked on many of both, I din't thing an H is going to work with an M even with the dome pistons. You can get much more out either one using the right parts. I just don't see a H pull with an M unless you go whole hog on an H and nothing on the M.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy