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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Let's get the facts straight about straight pipes!

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Farmallkid

05-01-2004 07:42:08




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Hi, I was talking to my cousin about putting straight pipes on his W-9 and my M for pulling. i have had guys tell me that its alright, they wont hurt a thing in the tractor. My cous had a mechanic working on there C and he asked him if its ok to put a pipe on, the guy said no, cause you need the commpression, and if you put a pipe on it will over heat the valves. Now, i dont know to much about commpression and the engine, So thats why i'm askin. Is it ok to have pipes on these old gals? They ran pipes on the old 10-20s and F-20s, So why not on the letter series? I have talked to many guys who know alot about farmalls and they said its ok, So is it or not? There is a web sight, and thes guys have a lot of farmalls and they run a pipe on there 9, These guys know alot, i'll post a link

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Joe Evans--Old Oak Farmal

05-03-2004 03:34:15




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
I was away from the 'puter for a couple days. Logged on to our site and saw 60 hits for May 2. Usually something's up on YT to generate that many hits. Came here, and now I see why. Thanks for using us as reference. Some facts and perceptions about the W-9 need squared away, however.

When we bought the W-9 last August, it just happened to have been fitted with a straight pipe. We didn't do this to enhance performance or anything else. Don't know in the least if a straight pipe adds or detract performance. We don't pull the W-9 regularly. We haven't had it that long and are still finding out some things about it.

As far as I am concerned, noise does not equal performance. The 3" stack on the W-9 DOES attract attention--the other Clubbers know we've arrived when the W-9 is barking at everyone. That sucker is loud, but a little bit of that noise gets real old real fast IMO. Had the opportunity to do some plowing with the W-9 two weeks ago. After a couple of rounds with the plows, I pulled them out of the ground and headed for my truck to get some ear plugs. Fortunately (unfortunately?) I was called to other duty when at the truck--the Plow Days host needed some corn stalks sliced up, so I used the 460 (has a muffler) and disk for the remainder of the day.

I do not recommend prolonged operation of a W-9 with a straight pipe without hearing protection. For short periods it's OK. I am seriously considering finding the proper muffler for it.

Will it damage the engine? Probably not if the time is taken to let the engine temps normalize after hard running. A very well-respected engine/racer wonk who I work with told me that a straight pipe allows cool air to come in contact with the exhaust valves--there is less metal to heat the incoming air than there is with a muffler. With trailing throttle and when you've throttled down with load behind you, the W-9 will burp and back fire slightly. This is fresh, O2 laden air igniting minute amounts of the unburned charge at the exhaust valves he tells me.

Will a straight pipe enhance performance? Maybe. The seller of the W-9 had several other tractors at this auction, some had been modified for pulling. This seller was indeed a puller. The W-9 appeared to be untouched for pulling, but later inspection revealed the rear lugs had been cut. Other things suggest that engine performance had been enhanced by this seller. Some peeling block paint revealed odd-colored primer indicating the engine had been reworked. We used the W-9 to tow my disk home, and following my brother on the W-9, I clocked him on a slight down hill grade at 20 MPH. Maybe the governor has been diddled with. Also, the W-9 appears to be a very strong performer on our Baker Test Fan--much stronger than what you would expect from a 50 BHP tractor. So, to sum up, perhaps the straight pipe is a piece of the pie with respect to bumping up the engine's pulling performance. Again, don't know.

Get yourself a straight pipe. They do sound cool! Just don't use it for long periods--just call it your "play pipe".

Joe Evans Old Oak Farmalls

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john d

05-02-2004 15:30:38




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
The engine will not suffer. Your ears will. To work in the field, you probably won't gain as much power as you think you will. On a pulling track, you might gain some. The length of the pipe will make very little difference on a work tractor, but will some difference on a pulling tractor IF you have everything else tweaked to take advantage of the straight pipe. If you're going to run this thing, invest about a dollar in a pair of those little foam plugs that go in your ears. You can put them in and (especially if your hair's a bit long) nobody else may even notice them! The tractor will sound about as loud to you with the plugs in your ears as it's GOING to sound LATER when you've been running it without earplugs!

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Jim in michigan

05-02-2004 11:08:43




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
I have ran my H with and without a muffler for years,,it makes no difference which way I run except for the noise,, I take the muffler off when making hay under the trees along the pasture,,,there is no difference in performance without the muffler,,it hasnt hurt it running without the muffler,,first 4 years I had it it didnt have a muffler...Jim



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riverbend

05-01-2004 19:18:37




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
Facts ? Noise does not equal power.

If the exhuast has any influence, you will have to re-tune the intake system to take advantage of it. If your cam, valves, carb, or air cleaner won't flow any more air, the exhaust won't matter. The main jet is adjustable, so that is a plus. Do you know anybody that has access to a dyno ? How about a disk or something that your M will barely pull in 3rd ?

Let us know what you find out.

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Farmallkid

05-02-2004 05:54:39




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 Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about straigh in reply to riverbend, 05-01-2004 19:18:37  
Hi, Like i said, i dont know much about the engine, but theres guys around me that know alot, and i'll learn from them. Yes i can get a dyno, the mechanic at the local machinery shop has alot of farmalls, he said i can come to the shop he'll dyno it and set it up for pulling. About the disc, my boss has a big case one, he pulls it with a 2394 case tractor, dont think my m will pull it!



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riverbend

05-02-2004 06:49:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about str in reply to Farmallkid, 05-02-2004 05:54:39  
The dyno will be a lot easier to use than the disk. If dyno time is inexpensive, try a run with the stock set up. You might have to adjust the main jet with the tractor under a load to get the max. power reading. Then try re-setting it with the straight pipe and see what you can get.

On some motors, if you can get the length of the pipe right, it will act as a resonator and help draw more charge into the cylinder, but that could be a lot of trial and error. There is a book on tuning intakes and exhausts for best performance, it could have been by Carrol Shelby or Philip Irving. They have a formula for calculating the length of the pipe.

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scotc

05-11-2004 08:03:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about in reply to riverbend, 05-02-2004 06:49:55  
about 15 inches on the collector is ideal but then again i've never seen a set of headers on an old farmall either.



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Hugh MacKay

05-01-2004 21:59:26




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 Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about straigh in reply to riverbend, 05-01-2004 19:18:37  
riverbend: I like that,"noise does not equal power" Caterpillar has been proving that for years, of course they also do quite well proving rpm does not equal power either. Takes one right back to the fact that rpm does equal noise.



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Dave S.

05-01-2004 18:25:33




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
Go ahead put it on it won't hurt the tractor. One thing I would do if you have been pulling it and it's hot let it idle for a little bit to allow the valves to cool before shutting it off. And yes some hearing protection wouldn't hurt.



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mike in mn

05-01-2004 18:12:37




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
the straight pipe was a factory option for the farmall h's through to the super m's. it probably depends on the size of the pipe you plan on running. the smaller the pipe the more back pressure your going to have. that is what's hard on the valves.



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BillWV

05-01-2004 18:01:42




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
I'm not sure about the bigger tractors, but if I'm not mistaken the muffler was an option on the smaller tractors, at least the early ones. In other words, you could get them from the factory with a straight pipe. I know that exhaust backpressure is a critical part of tuning on high revving engines, my own experience is with street bikes and turbocharged 4 cylinder cars, but I don't think it amounts to much on farm tractors. Maybe if you were pulling competitively and looking for an edge, even then as another post said, it is part of the tuning equation, it has to be balanced out with carb jetting and ignition timing. Pulling the muffler off of a well-tuned engine will hurt performance, no doubt; if it helps, the engine wasn't tuned optimally to start with.

Good luck,
Bill

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Chris Brown

05-01-2004 15:52:58




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
I don't know if it will ever wurt anything,but I have a 560 gas with 403(263ci)combine engine and an exhaust manifold off an 806 . It has had a straight pipe for several years.It sounds great. I have never had it at a tractor pull but I know it would haul some @ss. The combine governor at full bore holds it at 3100 rpms and it sure sounds fine. I pull a 14.5 foot IH disk with it and the neighbors can hear it a mile away.

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Hugh MacKay

05-01-2004 15:32:38




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
Farmallkid: Got for it, there is lots worse than a letter series IH with a straight pipe you could subject those tender young ears to. Keep the pipe long enough so it takes the sound and more importantly exhaust fumes over your head. My dad damaged the top section of his H mufler once so he cut it off just above the large section. He went disking for the afternoon and came home sick from exhaust fumes. He said there was only one other sickness as bad, getting sick chewing tobacco.

There are all kinds of guys around that operated Detroit 2 cycle diesels, and made a career of it. Some of them are now reaching old age. If anyone of them can hear anything, you need not worry about a letter series IH. If mankind was intended to listen to those Detroits, he would have been born with earmuffs. Your average teenage dance probably harder on your ears than a week of W9 ing.

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Paul in Mich

05-01-2004 13:29:51




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
Farmallkid, As long as you have your exhaust pipe a couple of inches taller than the hood, you arent going to hurt the tractor. Probably the only way you would hurt the tractor,is to run straight off the manifold with no extension pipe at all. My advice is that if you do add a straight pipe or chrome pipe, is to have it as tall as the muffler would have extended as it diminishes the amount of exhaust blowing back on you. The fumes on a W-9 can get pretty intensive. As to the noise factor, I chuckle here because the fatherly advice you are getting from everyone seems quite sanctimonious, given the fact that "Hollywood", glasspacks, and otherwise loud, obnoxious mufflers were invented and used to no small degree by our (50ish to 60ish) generation. I'm sure that if you use your W-9 every day, all day, that you may experience some hearing loss in years to come, but on a limited basis, far be it from me to suggest that you deny yourself the peasure of arguably one of the most Gawd-awful, magnificient sounds in tractor history. The W-9 with straight pipe is one awesome sound, and I challenge anyone to dispute that statement.

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CNKS

05-01-2004 18:41:24




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 Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about straigh in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-01-2004 13:29:51  
You will have to type louder, I can't hear you!



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Paul in Mich

05-01-2004 19:10:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about str in reply to CNKS, 05-01-2004 18:41:24  
CNKS, I'm tyhping so loud, my fingers are hoarse



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RobertN

05-01-2004 13:16:01




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
Two things that will affect you.

1) Jetting. As you open or restrict the exhaust, you need to jet the carb, as a more open exhaust will run hotter and want a richer mixture. A closed down exhaust will run cooler, and want a leaner mixture. Run it, and watch your plugs; they will tell you what is happening.

2) An more open exhaust adversely affects low end power. Some backpressure is a good thing at low to mid rpm range. A more open exhaust is applicable for more power in the mid to high rpm range.

A longer exhaust will help scavenge the cylinders better(pull the mix through). I'm guessing you run wide open for pulling. So, you want full power there.

Thaat is the fun of tuning. Change your exhaust, check the plugs, and jet as necessary. Try it. Then adjust the pipe length, each time checking and adjusting either the plugs(hotter or colder) and jetting(rich/lean). Doing this is what makes race tuners for Nascar, dragster, sprint cars, ect some of the really valuable people on the race circuits.

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Buzzman72

05-01-2004 11:31:23




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
The truth is, the tractor engine doesn't KNOW if it's a straight pipe or a muffler. The ONLY valve problems related to exhaust would be if your pipe was too SHORT, allowing the exhaust valves to cool too rapidly and warp the heads...which, leads to "burnt" exhaust valves and seats. So follow the advice already given about determining correst pipe length, and have at 'er! As far as hearing loss prevention, go by your local Tractor Supply or your local shooting supply/sporting goods store and invest a buck or two in a set of decent earplugs...it's good, cheap insurance.

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buck

05-01-2004 10:57:36




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  

Well my back won't lift,my legs can barrly work the pedals and my right ear is gone,but you M will like the straight pipe so do it right. Install the pipe and with some spray paint,paint a strip along the length of the pipe. Now work it hard untill he exhaust is hot and the paint has burned away. Cut the pipe off where it quit burning the paint. This is the point where the pipe is most efficient. One other point: Learn about compression as this is a big factor in a pulling tractor--Takes very good compression to make that pipe really talk and shoot tall flames.

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49 Cubber!

05-01-2004 10:38:48




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
Go ahead and put them on,your ears not mine,but the tractor will be fine.



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Dave in CT

05-01-2004 09:08:28




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
third party image

Sorry, let's try that link again:



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Dave in CT

05-01-2004 09:05:53




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
I think this link might work:



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CNKS

05-01-2004 08:53:57




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 Re: Let's get the facts straight about straight pi in reply to Farmallkid, 05-01-2004 07:42:08  
I'm not into pulling, so I'll probably get shot down, which is ok with me. IH mufflers, at least on the letter series, are straight thru, and thus aren't very restrictive, thus pipes are just for noise and decoration. The damage to the valves, however, is an old wife's tail. Do what you want and remember that when you are as old as I am you will be deaf as a post.



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Wardner

05-01-2004 09:07:17




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 Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about straigh in reply to CNKS, 05-01-2004 08:53:57  
CNKS, You are "spittin into the wind". The kid wants pipes and, by God, he will have them. Yep, I know a few deaf farmers and they wish they had taken more care when they were younger.



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Paul in Mich

05-01-2004 13:08:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about str in reply to Wardner, 05-01-2004 09:07:17  
Huh???? whats that again? Anyone knows that pizzin in the wind is gonna get your pant leg all wet.



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CNKS

05-01-2004 09:15:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about str in reply to Wardner, 05-01-2004 09:07:17  
I am aware of the spittle. I drove an H for years with the factory muffler, that and the other equipment I have driven has made me deaf -- I KNOW he will use pipes. It's just when you are older, you wish you had done things differently.



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Doug in OR

05-01-2004 10:08:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about in reply to CNKS, 05-01-2004 09:15:23  
Same goes for loud music. I get hearing tests yearly, and suffer from the same sorts of losses that most men over 50 encounter. Only worse. Since my biggest loss is in one ear, they think it is from that ear facing the exhaust very day as I turned my head watched behind the tractor. My employer brings in the "experts" every year for training. They all agree that loud noise exposures when young greatly increases the probability of hearing loss as we get older.

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Wardner

05-01-2004 10:24:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight a in reply to Doug in OR, 05-01-2004 10:08:27  
I am guessing that you looked over your right shoulder and exposed your left ear to the exhaust. That is the same ear that gets all the buffeting when you roll down your pickup window on a hot day. Most of us who grew up without AC in our cars and trucks have lost some high frequency hearing ability in our left ear.



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Sharky

05-05-2004 05:08:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's get the facts straig in reply to Wardner, 05-01-2004 10:24:04  
I wish you guys would STOP YELLING!!!!



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CNKS

05-01-2004 08:55:07




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 Re: Re: Let's get the facts straight about straigh in reply to CNKS, 05-01-2004 08:53:57  
"tail" was not deliberate, I meant "old wife's TALE"



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