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International A Not Running

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Larry Hardesty

04-28-2004 07:58:43




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Every since I started using my International A this spring it has not ran well. It is stored inside and I start it every couple of months during the winter but do not use it. It has a belly mower on it to use for mower. First, I had trouble starting it. Then I cleaned the sediment bulb (some rust in it) and the gas line. The blew out the carb with some carb cleaner. Seemed to run fine. This past weekend I started mowing with it again. It seemed to be missing, and eventually to died. I again took the gas line off and the sediment bulb. I did not see any dirt. I also took off the carb and blew it out again. Still did not run right. Gave up and and I took the carb into the local Case-IH dealer and had them soak the carb well and put in a new kit. The mechanic who worked on it said he did not see anything wrong in the carb. I put on the carb last night. Tractor was hard to start, would run for awhile, surge and act like not getting gas and then would die. In a few minutes it would start again and then miss and die. Gas does get to the carb, and the carb is supposedly clean. Any ideas. Would water in the gas do this? Would water show up in the sediment bulb (I have not seen any)? Previous owner had converted it to 12 volt alternator. Would a bad coil or condenser make it at this way? If so, how to do I check them? Open to suggestions and thanks in advance.

A 2nd question, is a special spark plug wrench needed to remove the spark plugs? My sockets seem to think to get into the recess to get on the spark plugs.

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Michael

04-28-2004 08:41:05




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 Re: International A Not Running in reply to Larry Hardesty, 04-28-2004 07:58:43  
I also think that the coil would be the best things to replace. There is a company out there that I have bought from a few times that sells new original coils. I have bought one and it works great. The name of the company is OEM Tractor Parts. Their number is 800.283.2122, give them a call, they also have a free catalog.



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Larry Hardesty

04-28-2004 08:56:50




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 Re: Re: International A Not Running in reply to Michael, 04-28-2004 08:41:05  
Michael, Thanks for the information. Any way to test the coil before I replace it? Larry



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Jeff In Ontario

04-28-2004 08:16:25




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 Re: International A Not Running in reply to Larry Hardesty, 04-28-2004 07:58:43  
I think from your description that you have a bad coil. Usually that is where I start looking and has often been the cause of this type of problem for me --I would replace the coil, points and condenser all at the same time. As for the wrench problem, you can buy a thin wall spark plug wrench, some of the newer plugs have a thicker base than the originals. -- Jeff



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Larry Hardesty

04-28-2004 08:34:39




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 Re: Re: International A Not Running in reply to Jeff In Ontario, 04-28-2004 08:16:25  
Jeff, Any way to test the coil before I start replacing parts? Thanks. Larry



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Steve W (NY)

04-28-2004 10:26:12




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 Re: Re: Re: International A Not Running in reply to Larry Hardesty, 04-28-2004 08:34:39  
I'll jump in....basically you've proved the points work because it will run, so they are opening and closing.....so assuming it's electrical, you've either got bad points or coil. The condensor is cheap, but less likely to be the culprit. But if you want to get the cheapest fix, replace it first and test the tractor. Then replace the coil.

It stings when you assume one thing and then find it's another, especially if you have the dealer get involved. I'd bet if you asked the dealer in the first place, he would have checked the fuel supply, ruled that out in 1 minute (unhook the line and let it run into a coffee can) and then moved on to the electrical system. One thing years of working on internal combustion engines has taught me: 90% of carb problems are solved in the distributor or magneto. Good Luck!

Take Care
Steve

Good Luck,
Steve

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Larry Hardesty

04-28-2004 11:38:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: International A Not Running in reply to Steve W (NY), 04-28-2004 10:26:12  
Steve, Thanks. Although it seems to me running out of gas....misses, almost stops, starts again, and then dies, I sure don't see anything that can confirm a gas problem (rust, water, etc.).

I stopped by the local electrical place, whom I have gotten to know fairly well over the years with several old tractors. Basically they said no way to test coil. Fellow said could replace the coil for $15. Stopped by NAPA and they are sold out of $15 coils, but have a $40 one, but could not explain the difference (other than $25 more). So they are getting one in for me tomorrow. While I am doing it I will replace the points and condenser. Thanks for the information and help. Larry

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BillWV

04-28-2004 12:08:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: International A Not Running in reply to Larry Hardesty, 04-28-2004 11:38:17  
My A would run fine sometimes, sometimes it would die as if starved for fuel. Usually if I let it sit for a while it would start back up. Turned out to be some pieces of gasket and rust clogging up the fuel inlet. Some of the gasket material would occasionally drift past and get sucked down onto the fuel inlet. I removed the sediment bowl completely and flushed some clean gas through, then had to pick out the bigger pieces through the gas cap opening. Should have cleaned it out better when I had the tank off. While I had the bowl/valve off I cleaned it out good, too; it was almost stopped up with rust.

I think some of the offending material was bark from where people have used a stick to measure remaining fuel. It adds up after 50+ years.

The standard way to test a coil is to replace it with a known good one.

Good luck with yours,
Bill

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Larry Hardesty

04-28-2004 12:43:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: International A Not Runnin in reply to BillWV, 04-28-2004 12:08:28  
Bill, Thanks. I had a similar problem with my Farmall 340 and it was rust (does not take much) plugging up the fuel filter (one of those cheap inline filters). Run for awhile, die, let it set, and then it run for awhile. I keep expecting this is the same, but I have not found the offending items, althought I did pick a piece of metal (size of a nickel out of the tank. Who knows how it got there, but it did not seem to make a difference.

On that same tractor I did replace the coil, only to discover the coil was not the problem...do trying to avoid that but I guess for $15, I can spring for a new coil.

Thanks again for the words of wisdom. It may be a piece of junk in the line yet.

Larry

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riverbend

04-28-2004 15:08:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: International A Not Ru in reply to Larry Hardesty, 04-28-2004 12:43:38  
Don't give up yet.

Does your tractor have regular spark when it quits running ? You can use and inductive timing light or an other spark plug.

If you have got sparks, take the drain plug out of your float bowl (I'm assuming it has one) does the fuel run out in a steady stream ?

If you do decide to junk it, you can part it inmy fence row.

Greg



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Larry Hardesty

04-28-2004 15:18:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: International A No in reply to riverbend, 04-28-2004 15:08:09  
Greg, I have not checked the spark this most recent time when it quits running...I guess I have been too busy trying to run the throttle to keep it running. However, to your second questions, yes gas does run out the carb bowl when I losen the screw. So I assume gas is getting to the carb? Does it indicate anything else--good or bad? The old girl is only 58 years old (1946) but I hope she lasts another 58. So I do not plan on parking her anywhere anytime soon. But thanks for the offer ; ) and the advice.

Larry

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riverbend

04-28-2004 18:26:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: International in reply to Larry Hardesty, 04-28-2004 15:18:00  
As long as you get a steady stream that continues for a few minutes, that means that you are getting gas to the carb. It might take a while for whatever that could be blocking up the fuel line to drift back into place. You might want to catch the gas in a can. No sense burning down the shed. If you have got fuel and the carb is good enough to start it, it will run. Warming these simple carbs up does not affect them too much.

Do you have another condensor laying around that you could try ? Usually it is the electrical stuff that is affected by heat. And it is usually the coil that craps out.

You can check the coil with an ohm meter. Try measuring the resistance between the two small terminals, between each terminal and the HT output, and all three and the case when the coil is cold. There should be a couple of ohms, not zero and not infinite. If it is hard to get a steady reading, try disconnecting it or an analog meter. Check it again when it stops running. See if the readings are the same. Be sure that the ignition is off, if there is any voltage involved, you could burn up your meter.

Same with the condensor, but they are made to store voltage, so be sure to short the lead to the case before you check it. The condensor should measure infinite or open if it is good.

Greg

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Larry Hardesty

04-28-2004 20:34:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Internatio in reply to riverbend, 04-28-2004 18:26:22  
I may have solved the problem. I went to get a new coil and NAPA did not have one of the cheaper ones available ($15) but would get it tomorrow. So I put on a condenser I had. Then, just to muddy the waters, I notice the toggle switch a previous owner had put on needed some wiggling for the ammeter to register a discharge when I turn it on. So I replaced the toggle switch. Tractor fired up. It run a little funny, but then I adjusted the main carb valve...I just had a new kit put in, and it seem to run fine. The test will be tomorrow when I run it under a load, but it seems to run fine. My guess is either a bad toggle switch cutting out and/or a bad condenser. Sure acted like bad gas, but obviously what do I know. Thanks to everyone for their help. If it does not work tomorrow under load, then I will see about the new coil.

Thanks again

Larry

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