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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Any info on changing M disk brakes over to band br

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jamie

04-25-2004 13:01:42




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Anyone done this or know where to get the parts? Would be willing to trade disk brake setup for band brake setup possibly since I can't see to find any info on adjusting these things.




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Haas

04-25-2004 18:12:15




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 Re: Any info on changing M disk brakes over to ban in reply to jamie, 04-25-2004 13:01:42  
I see no need to change them out. I have a tractor with the Lambert Brakes and they work fine. What problem are you having?? It's been a while since I had mine apart, and I don't recall the particulars of adjusting them, but as I recall, it was not difficult.



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Farmallkid

04-25-2004 14:49:36




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 Re: Any info on changing M disk brakes over to ban in reply to jamie, 04-25-2004 13:01:42  
Why? I think disk are better, easier to tear apart. if you get an IT shop manual it tells you everything that you need to know to adjust the brakes. my $0.02



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jamie

04-25-2004 20:00:08




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 Re: Re: Any info on changing M disk brakes over to in reply to Farmallkid, 04-25-2004 14:49:36  
Where do you find IT books? The manuals I have don't cover anything other than the band brakes on the M.

The problem I'm having is that the brakes just don't have any bite to them and I can't seem to get them to tighten up. I can stand on them and it seems it doesn't stop any faster than if it coasted to a stop. The only two adjustments I see are on the bolt coming out of the drum and the connected rod with the spring. Are there any internal adjustment? The pads nor the "rotors" don't seem to be in all that bad of shape. Any info on tearing them down and adjusting them would be greatly appreciated. I'm getting tired of buying so many manuals and there always being something thats not covered in them... I would also like to keep the Lambert brakes but there doesn't seem to be any info available on them.

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Dave_Id

04-25-2004 20:44:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Any info on changing M disk brakes ove in reply to jamie, 04-25-2004 20:00:08  
You need to tear them apart and clean them up. More than likely they are all rusted up. You can sandblast the castings to roughen them up for a better bite...The setup is very simple.. you shouldn't need an I&T manual to tear into them



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jamie

04-25-2004 21:12:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Any info on changing M disk brakes in reply to Dave_Id, 04-25-2004 20:44:12  
I've already opened them up... not really any rust in there much and the castings aren't in bad shape at all either. The tractor has been in a barn for a while and never left out in the elements. I just don't like the idea of poking around in the dark basically with parts that are almost inpossible to economically replace either. I don't have any problems tearing something down, cleaning it up, and putting it back together but I don't like the idea of messing around with the brakes for hours trying to figure out the process of adjusting them the right way. I've never touched brakes like these so I don't know how to go about it at all.

Does anyone actually know how to work on these? I've heard a lot of advice about how easy it is to do but no real info. Anything is easy if you know how to do it, but I don't... thats why I'm asking.

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Farmall450man

04-26-2004 05:58:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Any info on changing M disk br in reply to jamie, 04-25-2004 21:12:23  
Jamie, to find a prcedure for working on disc brakes you will have to use a manual that covers models that had disc brakes, ie. SM/SMTA/300/350/400/450. The I&T manuals for these models cover the disc brakes and are available on eBay. You may be able to get the IH Blue Ribbon Service Manual for disc brakes from Binders or this site. There isn't any adjustment except the bolt that connects the brake to the brake shaft. As others have said, roughing up the discs helps, you can use a sander to knock off the glaze on both the metal surfaces and the friction discs. The other thing to check is the condition of the balls and groves that they roll in, assuming that the Lambert brakes use them. Any rust there is bad news. Replacement balls are available for the IH brakes, if the Lambert brakes are the same the balls should fit. Some type of high heat resistant lubricant on the balls may help, but be very careful with any lube, if it runs you will ruin the friction surface. The other source of help is an IH dealer. A good parts man, if you can find one, can give you ideas and possibly tips on getting your brakes to perform better.

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Haas

04-26-2004 11:21:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Any info on changing M dis in reply to Farmall450man, 04-26-2004 05:58:04  
Yes, the balls in the Lambert brakes are the same as the Super Series brakes. The design is very similar to the super series.



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Haas

04-26-2004 05:51:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Any info on changing M disk br in reply to jamie, 04-25-2004 21:12:23  
I rebuilt my Lambert brakes in 2000, 4 years ago. When I started, no brakes at all on either side. After disassembly and clean up, still no brakes on one side, other side grabbed. Then I took the discs to a clutch/brake shop and they relined them. I sanded the actuators surfaces to take the glaze off them and reassembled, including a used return spring on the inside (trouble finding that) to replace the missing one. The brakes have worked fine since. I suspect your discs have enough oil on them, or are glazed enough that they have lost their friction properties. Not much you can do about that except reline or replace them. As I recall, the reline of all 4 cost me about $100 total. The problem you are describing is common to all the IH dry type disk brakes. The only real solution is relined or new discs plus taking the glaze off the actuator surfaces and replacing seals to get rid of oil contamination. If I were you, I would do my best to keep the brakes you have. I saw an M sell at auction a couple years ago that had the Lamberts. I thought the price was a bit high. Talked with the buyer and he said the reason the bought it was for the disk brakes.

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jamie

04-26-2004 11:56:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Any info on changing M dis in reply to Haas, 04-26-2004 05:51:59  
Tore both sides down today. The one side that I had originally taken apart was in good shape overall, but the side I hadn't opened up yet was in bad shape. The actuator plates were rusted and the pads were wore down into the rivets on one pad. These pads are 6" 26 spline. There was no oil at all in either side. I took several pics that I'll upload as soon as I figure out how to do so. The side that was bad (right) also was odd. There was a machined groove about 1/4" from the outer edge of the splined hub and one pad/disc had no splines. Also, where the inner pad goes on the hub, the splines were wore down pretty badly. Are these hubs available? If so, how much do they run and do you simply remove the bolt on the inside of the hub to replace it? Again... the pics will help once I get them uploaded. Thanks guys. Also, both the cone shaped return springs were broken in a couple places so I'm not sure if its worth putting them back in or not. Couldn't you just make a similar sized spring work anyway? Are these available from IH/Case? Thanks a ton for any info. I'm also gonna upload all the info and pictures I get on these brakes to my website for anyone that ever has problems with them to refer to.

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