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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Hey Hugh McKay

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Peabody

04-07-2004 08:33:49




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I've thoroughly enjoyed reading the thread below about the demise of IH. I've got the Corporate Tragedy book and it is an excellent read. You mentioned below about 1066 cavitation and the 886 german diesel. I'm not familiar with these situations. Could you explain further. Thanks, I always look forward to reading your comments.




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Hugh MacKay

04-07-2004 10:52:30




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 Re: Hey Hugh McKay in reply to Peabody, 04-07-2004 08:33:49  
Peabody: On the cavitation of sleeves on 1066. Cavitation is a fact of life with wet sleeved engines. This can be reduced by regular changing of coolant and also by use of water filters. IH put these tractors out without water filters. They knew the consequences before they built the first one. Five years later they started adding water filters. Even then they didn't bother to inform previous buyers who bought earlier tractors without a water filter.

On the 886 issue, the 766 model and the early 886 models came equiped with 360 American diesels The later 886 had the 358 German diesel. The German diesel while having great durability could not touch the 360 American engine on torque under heavy load. In our areea the guys that were buying these were 60 to 80 cow dairy farmers operating forage harvesters. Those early ones sold a lot of the later models. I didn't have one of these tractors, I have operated one 766 and one 886 both with 360 engines. I have never operated an 886 with the 358 engine. I do know there were a lot of unhappy customers. I do know the Deere dealer took most of them on trade within 5 years. I do know every one of them were shipped out of the area. Most I understand were shipped to upstate NY. Deere have also been doing the same with their green tradeins.

Another factor in all of this is actions of Deere themselves. For a good number of years now you could do a 3 year lease on a new Deere for an unbelievably low price, here in Canada. When the lease was up, the tractor is picked up by a US truck. I'm told these lease payments little more than covered interest. All those years our dollar was worth 65 cents US made this feasable I guess. I'm told now that our dollar has come up 10 cents now they are hauling them back. So for every 10 tractors in the field there are two on the road between Canada and the United States. Gee aint modern day economics grand.

Back in my home province we had one pocket of quite concentrated dairy farming. Every farmer in that area had a cattle hauling truck of some description. These guy also had exceptional milk production. An elderly gentleman that quite regularly drove through the area once made the following observation," I don't know how these guys produce so much milk, everytime you drive through there you meet at least 5 or 6 truck loads of cattle, on the road." His feeling was that cows don't produce much milk while being carted around on the back of a truck.

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Redman

04-07-2004 17:00:13




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 Re: Re: Hey Hugh McKay in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-07-2004 10:52:30  
i agree with everything you said,exspecially the 358 german diesel.good on fuel,but couldn't pull much better than a good 560.
the 1066 cavitation problem was not a big problem if the tractor was used regularly,setting is one of the things that helps get this problem going. the water filter was upto the dealer to get theinformation to the customers,all of our 66 series tractors had filters added in the mid 70s.

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Peabody

04-07-2004 18:59:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Hey Hugh McKay in reply to Redman, 04-07-2004 17:00:13  
Thanks for the info, guys. While I understand that cavitation would lead to exterior pitting of the sleeves, did this eventually lead to complete corrosion through the sleeve wall? What did filters do to correct/deter this? I thought cavitation was a product of low pressure/vacuum, and not a cause of water contamination.



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MT Pockets

04-08-2004 13:49:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey Hugh McKay in reply to Peabody, 04-07-2004 18:59:49  
Peabody, you are correct. The proper term is perforation. Cavitation or cavitating defines what a pump with a blocked or restricted intake or suction is doing. The word cavitation is used all the time now, probably because the cylinder sleeves have little "cavities" in them. To obtain a full understanding of the cause, effect, and prevention of this problem, do a Google search under Diesel Engine Perforation. Thanks. Steve Norwood.

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harley1983

04-08-2004 15:40:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey Hugh McKay in reply to MT Pockets, 04-08-2004 13:49:23  
Another term for this problem is "electrolisis". It was a major problem in Cummins wet sleeve engines in the early seventies until water filters were installed. The way I understand it, the filters took the air bubbles out of the water as it circulated. If a filter was not used, the air bubble would hit the hot cylinder liner with the coolant, and burst upon hitting the hot surface, and actually creat a small pin hole in the metal. In time this would eat completely through a liner and an overhaul would be in order.

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Jim

04-10-2004 23:11:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey Hugh McKay in reply to harley1983, 04-08-2004 15:40:47  
Cavitation is what happened to many Ford pickups with IH diesel engines over the last 15-20 years. They were sold with no water filter or any instructions about coolant changes. After a few years, the cylinder sleeves developed holes with all attendant problems. As for the German diesels in IH tractors, I have pulled the same 4-16 semi mtd IH plow with a 560D and a 756 w/ the German diesel. There is no comparison. The plow came with the new 560 in 1962 which was traded for the 756 in about 1967 at least partly because it couldn't handle the plow. It had other issues such as rear axle bearings etc. Don't let anyone tell you the German diesel was not a great engine. I sold the 756 at age 24 for $2500 more than I paid for it new. It had over 9000 hours with no engine work.

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