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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch plow.

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Kelly C

04-05-2004 19:44:30




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I tried plowing a bit after work this eve. All I can say is. Good thing none of you old timers saw me :-) Some one gave me set up instructions earlier. But I did a search and cant seem to find them.
Could you please give me some ideas how to cut a good furrow?




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Dave Sherburne, NY

04-06-2004 16:55:16




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 Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch plow. in reply to Kelly C, 04-05-2004 19:44:30  
The green book says the distance between
the center line of the tractor, and the inside of the furrow wheel shoud be 23 1/2" for a 12" plow, 25 1/2" for a 14" plow, and 27 1/2" for a 16" plow. The on land wheel doesn't matter too much as long as the plow is level side to side and front to back. I don't see why the dimension should be different for a red tractor.



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Hugh MacKay again

04-07-2004 08:18:13




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 Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch plow. in reply to Dave Sherburne, NY, 04-06-2004 16:55:16  
Dave: Does your green book provide the figures for 3, 4 and 5 bottom plows as well. From memory my guess is the figures you quoted were for 2 bottom plows. I have or maybe I should say had plow book put out by one of the universities which quoted it the way you do," from inside of rear tractor tire to center line of tractor." This book had figures on plows 12", 14", 16" and 18" from 2 to 6 bottoms and was written by a university engineer. Your figures sounded very familiar. What I was quoting Kally was purely from memory and the different plows I have used. Of course the trailer plows can be hooked just about anywhere you want especially if tractor is only at about 50 to 60 of load capacity.

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DiggerDave

04-08-2004 08:04:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch p in reply to Hugh MacKay again, 04-07-2004 08:18:13  
The book does not or I have not found dimension
specifically for 3 4 5 bottom plows . Kelly's
picture shows a 2 bottom plow, fast hitch .
I admit I have never used a fast hitch plow. There probrobly is an adjustment to point the
plow toward or away from the furrow to adjust the width of cut of the front bottom. But to have wheel set wider than the dimensions will result
in having to adjust the plow so it is pointed to the furrow in order to get the proper width of cut on the front bottom. THAT SAID, I would leave the on land wheel alone, find out if the plow is 14" or 16' then try to get the furrow wheel close to the proper dimension. maybe add a couple of inches. Dimensions for a 14" plow is 25 1/2 " plus 6 " to get to the center of the tire = tires 62 1/2" center to center on tires NOT ENOUGH ,you need 10" more to get 6' center to center. Five " each side. WON'T WORK I don't think you could adjust the plow to make that front bottom plow the proper width. Get a three bottom and we can start this discussion over. Three 14" bottom will change the center line of draft of the plow to get you about 6' center to center on the tires. My last plowing job was 7 bottom variable width plow 175 HP wheels set about 7 feet. That plow would do 6' wide up to 12'wide, The secret was in the angle of attack of the bottoms to get the front furrow width correct all done from the seat.

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Hugh MacKay

04-08-2004 12:30:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hit in reply to DiggerDave, 04-08-2004 08:04:00  
Dave: Kelly has never bothered to come back and tell us what the tractors rear wheel tread is set at. From my experience with Farmall tractors of this size, my guess is the rear tires are set on 72" centers, but I can not be 100% sure on that. If it is 72" center and those tires I would judge to be 12" tires. Having said that, it would then be 30" from inside of tire to center line of tractor. If all this be so, then from the figures you quote for the 16" plows he may be able to shift the hitch enough for a 2x16 plow. My experience with fast hitch plows tells me even the 2x16 plow will be border line. You cant get the kind on side adjustment on a fast hitch that you can on a 3 point. If the plow is a 2x14 it will be impossible.

Having said all of this there is little we can do if Kelly is not going to come back and tell us the tractor wheel tread setting, and if indeed he is willing to narrow the tractor to the figures you quoted. I guess it looks as though we all wasted our time. It is truly hard to help some people.

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Hugh MacKay

04-06-2004 17:20:27




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 Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch plow. in reply to Dave Sherburne, NY, 04-06-2004 16:55:16  
Dave: Your right color doesn't make a bit of difference, but the number of bottoms on a plow sure do, as well as width of cut you mentioned. Your figures sound about right for a two bottom plow. The real problem here lies with fact he is not going to operate that 400 set that narrow, unless he has a greater urge for the grave than I believe he does.



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Hugh MacKay

04-05-2004 19:59:20




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 Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch plow. in reply to Kelly C, 04-05-2004 19:44:30  
Kelly: Which model of fast hitch plow do you have? Also which tractor were you using 300 or 400? I remember you asking this before, but don't rmember, was it 2 or 3 bottom plow? Wheel tread setting on your tractor will be different for 2 and 3 bottom plows. Which hitch does your tractor have 300 or 400 original with 2 cylinders, one for lift and the other for depth control? If I remember you don't have a draft controled hitch, normally found on 350, 450 or newer. This will be needed no matter who gives you good answers.

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Kelly C

04-05-2004 20:15:06




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 Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch plow. in reply to Hugh MacKay, 04-05-2004 19:59:20  
third party image

Here you go Hugh.
400 with one cylinder. But I think the draft control is pinned. Also the float is pinned. The hitch can move side to side a bit though.



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Van in AR

04-08-2004 07:50:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch p in reply to Kelly C, 04-05-2004 20:15:06  
Kelly,
Had the same setup on a 300, traded for a 3 bottom disc plow which is better for my ground. You need the forward side cylinder to adjust the draft and angle of the front of the plow (fits on right side and uses the inside lever for control). Also need to un pin the front of the hitch so it can be adjusted, Adjust the wheels and level the plow and go for it. Also need to get that paint off of the moldboards. Van

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Hugh Mackay

04-08-2004 12:07:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hit in reply to Van in AR, 04-08-2004 07:50:35  
Van: The cylinder you speak of on the side just under the brake pedals on 300 and 400 is not a draft control but rather a depth control only. Draft control did not come until 230, 350 and 450.



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Hugh MacKay again

04-06-2004 04:04:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch p in reply to Kelly C, 04-05-2004 20:15:06  
Kelly: Those wheel tread settings are a bit flexable within 3 to 4 inches. Of course 12", 14" or 16" bottoms affect this a bit. While I said you could just change your hitch point to the right on a trailer plow even those must be close to settings when the plow becomes large enough you load the tractor to capacity. I have a book here somewhere that give a range for each of the various size plows. I haven't been able to find that book recently. I have a No. 60 plow manual that is rather vague. It talks about using 2, 3 and 4 bottom plows on 460 and 560 tractors where tractor is set at 72 to 84 inch wheel tread for 36 to 42 inch rows when cultivating. Here again the trailer plow is quite flezable if tractor is not fully loaded.

I will give you some examples I've used over the years. My 2x12 single point plow for 130, works well at 52" tread on tractor, 56" is so-so, 60" is impossible. 3x16 and 4x16 No. 60 trailer plows worked well on 300 and 560 respectively and both tractors set at 72" centers. 5x16 worked well at 84" wheel tread. The two factors you must consider here are size of the first furrow on right, and side draft on tractor which really only matters when tractor reaches its load capacity.

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Hugh MacKay

04-06-2004 03:24:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch p in reply to Kelly C, 04-05-2004 20:15:06  
Kelly: First off I doubt you will ever be very happy with that 2 bottom plow. For center line of draft on a 2 bottom plow your wheel tread must be close to 60" center to center on tractor. 3 bottom is close to 68" and 4 bottom 76". You are not going to run those high Farmalls that narrow, especially with a loader. If that were a trailer plow it would be just a matter of shifting your drawbar hitch point to the right thus making your right furrow same size as left furrow. With a tractor the size of a 400 and 2 bottom trailer plow the side draft would never bother you. My dad plowed for a number of years with 2x14 No.8 plow and 300 set on 72" centers. You could notice the side draft on 300 but it was not severe enough to hinder plowing. The problem with a fast hitch plow, is you can't move the hitch to the right to compensate for the wider tread setting, so rear wheels must be moved in.

Secondly as near as I can see your tractor has the original 400 fast hitch and the lift cylinder must be in float positon. You can not plow using down pressure, at some point it will lift the rear wheels of tractor taking away traction. Just ahead of your right rear axle carrier on hitch is provission for second implement 8" stroke hydraulic cylinder. That cylinder is a must for plowing as it is your depth control. This in my opinion made the fast hitch on 100, 200, 300, 400 and 130 the Cadalac of plowing machines, being able to hydraulically change your depth setting, on the go while plowing. This was a great feature if you had various soil type or conditions within a field. When you came to that certain hard spot in field you could adjust depth accordingly.

You do not have draft control, that came later with the 230, 350 and 450. In my opinion you can count yourself lucky you don't have the newer hitch as the draft control never worked well on those tractors and you lost the ability to change depth on the go. IH really never had a great draft control until the 04 and 06 tractors and by then both 2 point and 3 point hitches.

This would be my advice. You are not going to change wheels on 300 or 400 every time you plow. I've been there and done that, people that loosen rear wheels regularly always have loose wheels and are always tightening wheels, and sheared of a few keys in cast hub of rear wheel. If I were you with spring auction season on I would look for a 3 bottom plow. 3x16 will work well with rear tractor tires on 72" centers. I judge your 400 to be on 72" centers with out side of wheels flush with ends of axle. If you go 3x14, 72" will be a shade wide. My guess is you can probably switch plows for close to nothing in actual cash outlay. Home gardening folks really like the 2 bottom plows and you can set a 300 Utility at 60" centers quite easily Now I supose you could buy a 300 Utility just for plowing. But then 300 Utility outlay could be saved for that 656 or 706.

I seriously would look at 3x16, either fast hitch mounted, semi-mounted or trailer and come into the newer plows with trip bottoms. They will save you a lot of grief plowing with that 400 or larger tractor.

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Wardner

04-05-2004 22:16:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch p in reply to Kelly C, 04-05-2004 20:15:06  
I am not a farmer but I have plowed a bit with the hitch type that you have. I use both the verticle and the horizontal cylinders. The horizontal 2.5" x 8" cylinder sets the proper angle (fore and aft) of the plow. In other words, it is adjusted to keep both furrows at equal depth and level. I never tried plowing with the front of the hitch locked out either up or down.

I have both a three bottom and four bottom. If I lose traction I will use the front cylinder to get me going again. I do this because I learned to plow with a Cub and used the front "draft control" in a similar manner.

I bought several of the small cylinders from Berkshire Equipment. But I am sure that any old time dealer will probably have them as used.

It is interesting that your 400 has eight spoke wheels. Haven't seen that before. Must be a late 400.

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Ken K

04-05-2004 21:39:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch p in reply to Kelly C, 04-05-2004 20:15:06  
Hi Kelly

I see your bottoms are painted with red paint! Have you taken the paint off the bottoms? Your will probably never get the bottoms to scour with all that paint on them. Get the bottoms as shinny as you can get them with sand paper and wire wheel on a drill etc. Then lift your colters up so they don't cut very deep, or take them off if don't have much trash, and drive fast to get a good "land polish". If you have some sandy soil, this will help you also. Once you get a good polish, and you are not using the plow, keep your plow bottoms painted with a special paint, see your local farm store, for keeping the moldboards from rusting. It looks like a thin black tar. I get mine in a gal. can at Farm & Fleet here in Illinois. Speed should not be a problem for you with that 400 and 2 bottom plow! Can't help you with adjustments for fast hitch plow. Good Luck!

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wolfy

04-05-2004 19:49:24




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 Re: Need help with set up 2pt fast hitch plow. in reply to Kelly C, 04-05-2004 19:44:30  
Which kind of Fast Hitch. If later (like 450 & newer),make sure you've removed the pins to let hitch float both laterally & horizontally. After that the only adjustment needed is crank on lift arm to level out plow-providing your wheels are the correct width.



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