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Water pump packing

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CNKS

03-26-2004 17:36:38




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This subject has been covered numerous times, but I don't have the answer to this problem. Super H water pump had worn impeller shaft, replacing old with new packing did not stop leaks. I replaced entire pump with a new one, same thing happens. Tighten new packing (4 pieces), run 5-10 minutes, nut is loose, water drips out. Tighten some more, same thing happens, tighten until snug, again, leak stops,but packing works it's way out of shaft, and it leaks again. In other words I have used various amounts of packing, with different degrees of tightening on the old and new pumps and I still get leaks. Not leaking at the moment, but the packing nut is looser than when I last tightened it. I expect it to start leaking again--usually takes 15-30 minutes of operation. It should stop with the right amount of packing, and just the right amount of tightning, but I don't know what that is. I assume the packing (IH) being circular, is installed so it wraps around the shaft. I staggered the openings, sort of like installing piston rings. I could straighten it and poke straight in, but I don't know what good that would do. Shaft has been greased, so that is not the problem. Started with 3 pieces in the old pump, ended up with 6, with the same result. Any ideas? I am overlooking something obvious.

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John In Iowa

03-27-2004 07:36:11




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 Re: Water pump packing in reply to CNKS, 03-26-2004 17:36:38  
Putting packing in a pump can be channeling. Too loose and it leaks, too tight you will burn the packing and the shaft. Packing has to leak a little just to keep it lube and keep it from burning. The object is to have it leak with the grease instead of water. After installing new packing keep the nut loose (Tighter than finger tight but no more than about 20 foot pounds.) and add small amount of grease and keep tightening the packing little by little while running the engine in between until your leaking stops. If you over tighten you will burn the packing and shaft. If you over grease, you will move the shaft back through the packing, if the shaft has ridges in it, it will over size and tear the packing were it meet the shaft and which will cause you leaking. No more than a half a shot of grease should do it. This will allow you to seat packing and work out all the voids without burning or tearing the packing.

John In Iowa

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CNKS

03-27-2004 11:25:26




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 Re: Re: Water pump packing in reply to John In Iowa, 03-27-2004 07:36:11  
John. basically that's what I did, I did not tighten the nut much at first, and then ran awhile and tightened again. After about the 3rd time, however, I began tightening the nut more, which then causes the packing to come out the shaft hole, meaning of course that it is over tightened. Perhaps I am too impatient, but with a new pump and new packing, it would seem that it would not require much tightening. 49 Cubber said that the packing used to be a complete circle? Perhaps the new stuff is not as good as the old. I have two more new pieces, think I'll put those in over the other stuff and see what happens. Probably another leak.

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John In Iowa

03-27-2004 16:12:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Water pump packing in reply to CNKS, 03-27-2004 11:25:26  
I work for a pipeline company and work on a lot of valves and pumps. Some pumps have mechanical seals and some have packing.
It sounds like the packing you are using is Teflon, which is very soft. The last packing that I got from our Dealer when redoing a Farmall 450 water pump was graphite, which is a littler harder and does not squeeze out as bad as Teflon. If these are spit rings, make sure you offset the cuts, I usually offset 45 degs. I have the best luck at work with a combination of Teflon and graphite. First ring in is graphite, then Teflon and the last ring graphite. With the graphite being the first and last in the stuffing box, it holds the Teflon in place and keeps it from be squeezed out. Hope this helps.

John In Iowa

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CNKS

03-27-2004 19:02:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Water pump packing in reply to John In Iowa, 03-27-2004 16:12:52  
I'm not sure what it is. Since the pump on your 450 (unless IH changed them) is the same design as mine, I assume my dealer sold me packing made out of the same material. This is not a joke, when my pump spits out the packing it is very flat, the pieces looked like pieces of leaves, veins and all. After looking at the pump sleeve closer, it appears that the packing should stay out of the threaded area, but that is only about 3/8 inch. Once the packing gets into the threads it seems to be doomed. But, each piece of packing is 1/4 inch thick, it probably takes at least 3 staggered to take care of the gap, I used 4. That's 1 inch of packing that has to fit is a 3/8 inch area, so it has to be compressed over 50% of it's thickness. At the moment, some is in the threads, according to my measurements. Tempted to take the pump off for the second time and start over.

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49 Cubber!

03-27-2004 06:26:50




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 Re: Water pump packing in reply to CNKS, 03-26-2004 17:36:38  
Unless my dealer gave me the wrong packing for my -4 a couple of years ago,that packing didnt have the opening you refer too,but I do recall that I got some many years ago that was like that.My M did the same thing to me once and all I did was to keep tightenign the nut down until it stopped,but it sounds like your tightening it enough or too much maybe that its squeezing out the packing causeing a leak.Two pump with the same problem..... ..... wierd.

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Hermit

03-26-2004 18:52:10




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 Re: Water pump packing in reply to CNKS, 03-26-2004 17:36:38  
Assuming the Super H water pump is similar to the one on an M, when you greased the water pump, did you use marine grease, low temperature grease, high temperature grease? Did you put the recommended amount of grease into the 2 seperate zerk fittings? Do you see an oily film in your anti-freeze like the grease is washing away when the engine warms up? Hope this helps.



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CNKS

03-26-2004 19:16:32




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 Re: Re: Water pump packing in reply to Hermit, 03-26-2004 18:52:10  
I just used the usual chassis grease. I was not sure whether or not the pump was greased when built, so I did grease it when I installed it. Some grease did come out the shaft hole when I first started the tractor. But, I then removed the pump and shaft, when I removed the shaft it did not appear overgreased. I am aware of possible contamination of the cooling system by over-greasing, but I don't think I did that. I don't think greasing has much effect on leakage (I can be corrected) unless so much gets in there it pushes the packing out. I'm sure the H I drove in the 50's was over-greased but it never leaked. The antifreeze that leaks out does not appear to be contaminated.

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Nebraska Cowman

03-26-2004 17:50:03




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 Re: Water pump packing in reply to CNKS, 03-26-2004 17:36:38  
sounds like maybe the packing you got was too soft. Stranger things have happened.



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CNKS

03-26-2004 18:00:07




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 Re: Re: Water pump packing in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 03-26-2004 17:50:03  
Could be, but it consists of three separate orders from Case IH, could be from the same batch. The new pump just had string in it -- leaked like a sieve. Seems to work best with the string on top of the IH packing.



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