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Distillate

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Mike

03-03-2004 19:55:52




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Hello, I've always heard of it, but what exactly is 'distillate' fuel?

Thanks, Mike




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JPY

03-05-2004 13:21:27




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 Re: Distillate in reply to Mike, 03-03-2004 19:55:52  
I worked in a refinery what had a older crude distillation unit. It had a "Water White Distillate Draw". It was heavy kerosine in composition. You have to watch using JP-4. It is a mix of kerosine and gasoline made to allow the gov'mt to use one jet engine fuel from north to south poles. It has a gasoline like flash and should be treated like gasoline.



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Andy Martin

03-05-2004 19:41:18




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 Re: Re: Distillate in reply to JPY, 03-05-2004 13:21:27  
That's the myth I referred to in my post.

I was a maintenance engineer in the refinery and the chemical engineer in charge of formulating products out of whatever constituents we were currently making (based on crude we were running and various operating characteristics of the units making product).

We burned several drums of the jet fuel on the farm before the source "dried up".



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Bob Kerr

03-04-2004 20:16:40




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 Re: Distillate in reply to Mike, 03-03-2004 19:55:52  
Distillate was a bit heavier grade than K1. It might be still used for diesel fuel but I heard they add parrafine and other components to diesel to keep the injector pump lubed.One thing is certain, it was not as cleanly refined as K1 and had an odor to it. You can run diesel, but your plugs will get fouled eventually.Some dual fuel tractors did make more power with distillate and some did not, I have 2 dual fuel tractors, one is a 29 10-20 IH and the other is a 35 F-12. The F-12 went through a test on a dyno using both gas and kero in 2 different pulls, it made the same horsepower on both fuels but I did have to slightly lean the carb on kero to make the power so it would have been slightly better economy which may have been offset some by the extra engine oil you have to use when running kero. I have heard some old timers say distillate used to cost them as little as 4-8 cents a gal and gas cost 15-18 cents. An H or M dual fuel however has a different head and other parts and I assume a different compression ratio for the distillate use and therefor the different horsepowers show in the nebraska tests for those tractors. Some tractors that were made to run on distillate only (I.E. 1928 and earlier 10-20s)will not run worth a poop on gas when hot, they sputter and miss and you have to pull the choke part way on for them to run right. I talked to a guy yesterday about a John Deere distillate model that does the same thing on gas. A shutter or canvas roll up curtain was used in front of the radiator to keep the water temp up to lessen oil dillution. That kero will acually condense on the cylinder walls (especially at the bottom of the piston stroke where the water is cooler on thermo-syphon tractors)and get blown past the rings into the pan, the hotter the walls, the less condensation. They didn't have detergent oil in the 20s and the kero would separate from the engine oil overnight so you could use the middle drain cock on the oil pan to drain off the "bad oil" and add fresh oil to the top drain cock. I heard some old timers would dump the drained oil right into the kero tank and burn it! Another thing they used that dilluted oil (and old motor oil in general)for was treating fence posts in an old horse trough. I talked to an old guy who said his dad used to burn straight crude oil in his tractor during the depression in Oklamoma, he took it straight from a well on their farm and put it in the tractor tank. He said the plugs would usually foul out right about noontime so his dad would pull them out and let them soak in gas while he ate dinner.

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Andy Martin

03-04-2004 18:46:10




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 Re: Distillate in reply to Mike, 03-03-2004 19:55:52  
In addition to the other comments, the petcocks to check the oil level were also used to lower the oil level when a little distillate dilution raised the level too high. With gasoline, you practically never have to even open the upper petcock.

Also, my dad tells me the tractors had more power and better fuel economy on distillate. So it was cheaper but not inferior.

From earlier posts on this board it is apparent that different areas of the contry had differant grades of distillate. In Missouri, it was called tractor fuel and was a little heavier than kerosene (or coal oil at the time) and lighter than diesel.

I have used JP-4 in kerosene lanterns, it burns clean. I'm sure it would work well in a tractor, but a Farmall needs shutters to keep the engine temperature up.

For the naysayers, I confirmed with a chemist in a refinery that indeed jet fuel is only clean kerosene and not explosive since all the local experts were sure I would blow myself up using jet fuel in a lantern. The fuel was free from the water sump on the flight line. Too much moisture for a jet engine but the lanterns couldn't tell!

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Bus Driver

03-04-2004 18:32:31




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 Re: Distillate in reply to Mike, 03-03-2004 19:55:52  
Having driven an "all fuel" tractor a good bit during WWII and just after, the distillate was not so heavy as today's heating oil. It was more like the kerosene that was one step heavier than the K-1 of today. K-1, in my opinion, is perfect for an all fuel tractor, whether the maker specified kerosene, tractor fuel or distillate. Starting must be with gasoline.



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Bruce Wa.

03-04-2004 08:39:10




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 Re: Distillate in reply to Mike, 03-03-2004 19:55:52  
As I understand, distilates were a product of an older refining process which is no longer used.



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Sid

03-04-2004 00:55:54




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 Re: Distillate in reply to Mike, 03-03-2004 19:55:52  
Distillate was similar to Home Heating Oil and was often used for this purpose.
Up until the late 40's some states imposed a tax on gasoline that was not refundable when used for agriculture purposes. It was therefore a lot cheaper to burn distillate despite it's drawbacks in operating the tractor.
The compression ratio of the Farmall H for burning distillate was 4.75, and the Octane Rating of the distillate used in the H during the Nebraska Test was 37.
Hope this little bit of information is of some help. Sid.

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The Red Barron

03-06-2004 03:40:07




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 Re: Re: Distillate in reply to Sid, 03-04-2004 00:55:54  
My delivery man tells me the heating fuel he pumps into the heating tank is the same fuel he pumps into a deisel fuel tank for those that have them on their farms. The only difference is whether or not he charges the road tax. Andy--can you confirm that?



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JPY

03-08-2004 14:38:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Distillate in reply to The Red Barron, 03-06-2004 03:40:07  
Heating oil and diesel can be the same. Heating oil has a "Cetane" of 40. Cetane as like a octane measure for gasoline. Diesel can have Cetanes from 40 to 50. 50 would be a premium diesel for say a car and have very low sulfur. Not sure a tractor would care if it ran 40 or 50.



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Mike

03-04-2004 04:03:21




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 Re: Re: Distillate in reply to Sid, 03-04-2004 00:55:54  
Thanks guys, I kinda figured it was something like that, now I know.

Mike



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Bill Smith

03-03-2004 20:21:01




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 Re: Distillate in reply to Mike, 03-03-2004 19:55:52  
Its a fuel that is partially refined (maybe un-refined) I believe. Sort of a low grade of fuel. Common in the 30's, 40's, 50's. I believe cheaper during those times. Extra troublesome to burn. A distillate burner or kerosene burners (they had them too) had to be pre-run on straight gas to heat the engine up. Once engine was hot, you could then switch over and run on distillate. A cold engine would not run on distillate. You had to switch back to gas for shut down, so you could get tractor started once it cooled down. Small amounts of raw distillate fuel would build up in crankcase, which you would have to drain off of the engine oil on a regular basis. I don't think distillate is even available anymore. Diesel is not quit the same although some people maybe using some sort of blend using diesel as part of it for a substitute for distillate. No reason not to just use straight gas in distillate burners this day in age.

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