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Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour

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Dave Craft

01-19-2004 19:11:26




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I've been tracing an electrical problem in my farmall 404 and finally arrived at the resistor as my problem. The tractor would attempt to start but when I let off the starter button it would not run. I subsequently determined that the push button starter is wired in such a way that it bypasses the resistor (hence the "almost" running). Once you let off the starter switch the electrical supply to the coil flows thru the other path which includes the resistor.

My problem: Once I place a wire between the poles of the resistor (essentially bypassing it) the tractor will run. At that point I thought....bad resistor! However I took it off and checked it with a voltmeter. It shows 0 ohms resistance between the poles (like a straight wire!). In addition when I test it in series with a 12 volt battery, the voltmeter shows 12 volts (essentially it is performing no resistance...again just like a straight wire). I would have expected the volts to drop across the resistor to something like 6 or 7 volts. I think normal running of the tractor requires something less than the full 12 volts, hence the need for the resistor.

So if it performs like a straight wire in tests it should allow the tractor to run...but it doesn't. Note that I think if I did straight wire it...or just use this "odd" resistor...I'd eventually burn the points, as 12 volts is too much.

The IH mechanic claimed the resistor had to be put on in a certain direction. That was wrong because A) the posts would have been labelled as such and B) I checked it in series with the battery with the current flowing to either post and get the same result.

Ideas? Is this resistor kaput? Could I have done something to cause it to die? I have noticed it being warm to the touch.

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Dale M

03-02-2004 20:22:22




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 Re: Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour in reply to Dave Craft, 01-19-2004 19:11:26  
Hi Dave,it is possible that it is your ingnition switch. I have seen a switch go dead in the run position,this happened on an old combine I was driving. The engine would run if you held it in the start position but as soon as the switch went back to the run position it would dye. I ran a wire from the positive battery post to the positive side of the coil and the combine would stay running. We finished that day like that and changed the switch the next day. Good luck.

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Dave Craft

01-21-2004 07:55:36




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 Re: Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour in reply to Dave Craft, 01-19-2004 19:11:26  
Thanks to everyone. The resistor is indeed bad under load. Amazing the things you learn on this forum.



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Hugh MacKay

01-20-2004 06:09:32




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 Re: Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour in reply to Dave Craft, 01-19-2004 19:11:26  
Dave: I have read all of this discussion, and my first reaction, could your coil already be 12 volt, and not requiring the resistor. If you are in fact cutting the output of a 12 volt coil with built in resistor in half, that may be why your tractor tries but cant run. Been there and done that. In my opinion buying resistors is nothing more than a troublesome cheap fix. If doing a 12 volt conversion I always buy a new 12 volt coil. If you are starting with someone elses conversion and labeling is off the coil you really have no idea what your dealing with. Good chance the previous owner sold the tractor as he didn't know what he was dealing with or doing either. I've seen some quite ridiculous cobbled up wiring systems in my day, some of them actually work, for awhile anyhow. Probably summer only.

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Doug in OR

01-20-2004 11:17:38




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 Re: Re: Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-20-2004 06:09:32  
I vote for your fix, Hugh. JB does have the problem nailed, but just dumping the resistor and going to a 12 volt coil will give you a more reliable fix.



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Larry

01-20-2004 03:11:36




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 Re: Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour in reply to Dave Craft, 01-19-2004 19:11:26  
JB is right on the money...I've been down this road to. The only time you'll notice a drop in voltage is when the points are closed and then its like 9 volts or so. I'd guess (from the way I read your post, that you're losing power to the resistor. Take a jumper wire direct from the battery and hook to the resistor and then start it and see if it keeps running.



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old

01-19-2004 20:27:31




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 Re: Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour in reply to Dave Craft, 01-19-2004 19:11:26  
To add to what JB said and maybe help also most meters you buy are not calibrated very well and the resistor you are measureing is only about 5 ohms so you might read zero on it. But from what you have said it has to be the resistor that is bad and yes you need to have one in line with the coil or get a new 12 coil. What you have is a load failure problem or in other words you put a load on the resistor and it dies

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RB

01-19-2004 19:51:25




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 Re: Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour in reply to Dave Craft, 01-19-2004 19:11:26  
On an original 12v system the solenoid supplies 12 volts to the coil through a separate wire, not the resistor, for starting. Then when you release the button, power through the resistor from the ignition switch is cut to about 8 volts. If your 404 was originally 6 volts it may be wired wrong. In most cases like this the engine cranks but won't start until you stop cranking, then it starts while still turning from the momentim of the 12 volts. Hope this helps.

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JB

01-19-2004 19:48:05




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 Re: Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour in reply to Dave Craft, 01-19-2004 19:11:26  
Hi, the resistor probably requires a load to cause it to fail. Connect a 12V light bulb from resistor to ground and see if it glows dimmly or not.

Problem reading the load end of the resistor with a volt meter is that the volt meter draws so little current that the voltage drop across the resistor is almost 0 and hence you read 12V. This is especialy true for digital volt meters as they require only micro amps of curent to read voltage.

In math terms Voltage across Resistor = Current x Resistance. If current require for digital meter is 10 micro amps (10 x 10-6) and resistor is 5 ohms then voltage drop across resitor would be (10 x 10-6) x 5 = 50 x 10-6 or 50 micro volts.
So if you had a 12V battery connected to the resistor and a digital volt meter on the load side of the resistor the volt meter would read 12V because the -50 micro volts is to small to read.
This is the reason to connect a 12V light bulb on the load side of the resistor and it should draw 1 or 2 amps and the voltage drop across the resistor should be from 5 to 10 Volts.

Sorry for the ramble but was an electronics troubleshooter for many years.

JB

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John In Iowa

01-20-2004 04:26:16




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 Re: Re: Odd Resistor Electrical behaviour in reply to JB, 01-19-2004 19:48:05  
JB

Your right on the money. I seen this before when you put a load on the resistor the volt. drops to zero. Drove me nuts before I replaced the resistor. I have also seen this with a bad connetion were you have good volt.and put a load on it and the volt. drops.

John In Iowa



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