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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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560D won't fire - suggestions?

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WhiteBear

01-05-2004 11:02:09




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I have a 560D that stopped running. No fuel to injectors, so I had the injector pump and injectors rebuilt. After assembly, I now have fuel to injectors, and all air out of lines. Engine cranks fast, but no fire. Tried a shot of ether ( I know, not a good idea ) straight into the intake. No fire at all even with ether. A little smoke from stack, but more from tube off of the block. No water in oil or oil in water. Hand turned to make sure valves function and timing appears to be correct with valve cover off. Next step is to run compression on test to see if I have serious problem. Is there a possibility that I have worn out sleeves/piston rings. Any suggestions would be great.

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Hugh MacKay again

01-06-2004 09:03:48




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 Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to WhiteBear, 01-05-2004 11:02:09  
White Bear: On this towing, get your tower to tow you at a speed that will turn your engine about 1200 to 1500 rpm, keep it turning continuous, make sure the oil presure comes up, set the throttle near that speed and use your glow plugs. What you are trying to create here is heat, and heat will correct a whole lot of short comings.

Another suggestion is tow for a bit first with all of your injector lines unhooked. This will remove air faster and more economical than the starter. The process you are going through will take years off the life batteries, starter and glow plugs, if you stay on that route.

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Chris In TX

01-06-2004 13:47:44




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 Re: Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to Hugh MacKay again, 01-06-2004 09:03:48  
Yes Hugh Is right again,I have a 560 and If It doesent crank In about 15 sec cranking, It will be Flooded,So Pull It , If you Have tried to crank it for a long time, you might have to pull it for a mile or so.When you pull it for about 100 ft you should have white smoke comeing out,If not you have another problem. Good Luck!!!



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Hugh MacKay

01-06-2004 08:43:21




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 Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to WhiteBear, 01-05-2004 11:02:09  
White Bear: Having read all this discussion, and if your reasonably sure the problem Gatz suggests doesn't exist. If you told your rebuilder pump application he should have that right. I would find a tractor large enough to tow the 560 in 4th gear with clutch out and engine turning until the old girl fired or a mile, which ever comes first. If after 1 mile it hasn't fired you have problems. Some of those old 282 could be miserable after fuel was out of system. You think you have all the air out, and there is more. I put a total of 25,000 hours on two of these tractors, and believe me towing in this situation saves a lot of bills on starters, batteries and glow plugs.

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Mark in AB

01-05-2004 18:47:52




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 Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to WhiteBear, 01-05-2004 11:02:09  
BE VERY VERY CAREFUL WITH ETHER IN A GLOWPLUG ENGINE, YOU MAY THINK YOU SPUN ALL THE ETHER OUT WHEN YOU HIT THE PLUGS AND KABOOM. If timing is in the ballpark and you have fuel to the injector bleeds and you have no or very little smoke... the injectors are air locked. Give the tractor a pull to get the revs and fuel pressure up..should start smoking then if the timing is right firing.



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Mark in AB

01-05-2004 18:52:59




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 Re: Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to Mark in AB, 01-05-2004 18:47:52  
you don't want your next forum question titled "it just went BANG!"



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Gatz

01-05-2004 15:46:58




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 Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to WhiteBear, 01-05-2004 11:02:09  
here is something to look at that is easy. Take the little cover off the side of the pump. Should be 2 screws holding it on. With it at 3 BDC you should find 2 timing lines under that cover that are lined up. The pump shop may have also put the cam ring in wrong. That pump can be made to run CC and Clockwise depending on which way that ring is installed.



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Ben in KY

01-05-2004 13:30:32




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 Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to WhiteBear, 01-05-2004 11:02:09  
Injector pump timing ?



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WhiteBear

01-05-2004 14:51:07




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 Re: Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to Ben in KY, 01-05-2004 13:30:32  
That was my thought initially, like I was off 180 degress when I put the pump back on. Pulled the valve cover to very TDC on the compression stroke and verify that the pump time is 3 degress BDC on the compression stroke. What has me concerned is that even with the pump being off, I would think that ether would get fire if the compression was OK.



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Tommy H

01-05-2004 15:53:20




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 Re: Re: Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to WhiteBear, 01-05-2004 14:51:07  
Even if the compression is really off the ether should give some fire. I would say check your ignition...but...lol

Got to have compression, fuel, Air, and Fire (in your case glow plugs0

You say the Fuel is there, possibly too much fuel?

Is there ample air supply? Manifold isnt plugs or anything? No critters in there?

And you say the plugs heat nicely...

And even if the compression is really bad the ether should pop it over....

Turn it over with the plug warmer on, the remove the plug and see if it is wet. If its wet then it isnt getting hot enough, or its being bombarded by raw fuel.

I dont know deisels that much, I only know gassers...

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Aces

01-05-2004 12:36:43




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 Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to WhiteBear, 01-05-2004 11:02:09  
WB you did not say anything about the glow plugs hope you checked them when you had the injectors out. They need to get red hot on the tip and the tip should not be burnt back very much. rings would have to be bad for it not to start. Could be return line to tank, but if you are getting good fuel to injectors return should be ok.



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WhiteBear

01-05-2004 13:09:38




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 Re: Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to Aces, 01-05-2004 12:36:43  
I replaced all the glow plugs when we rebuilt the injectors. I pretty sure they are heating, since during a recent cold snap the injector was warmer that the surrounding head surface when the button was held in. As for the fuel return line, it should be OK, the check valve for only allowing fuel to flow back is gone, so if you disconnect it, you can drain the tank.



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Runner,Al.

01-05-2004 17:59:16




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 Re: Re: Re: 560D won't fire - suggestions? in reply to WhiteBear, 01-05-2004 13:09:38  
If the return line is blocked, it will not run.



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