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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Overtorqued head on Super M

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Tim Malin

12-17-2003 12:16:02




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I was told I drastically overtorqued the nuts under my valve cover when I had my engine all tore apart and then put back together. I was told it was a sin to not use a torque wrench, and that the way I did it (increased much leverage and then applied much pressure) overtorqued them. What are the potential problems with this? Will it need an overhaul sooner or something? Would it be advisable to take it back apart and do it properly? I am worried, although it runs okay now, I sure do not want to ruin my tractor.

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Tim Malin

12-19-2003 09:10:17




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 Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-17-2003 12:16:02  
Okay, I'll confess. I used a socket wrench with about a 5 foot lever. About a foot and a half long wrench with a 3 or 4 foot pipe. The pressure I put on was about a 75-
100 pound bench press, and I'd push until it felt really tight. I didn't bust anything, but I know I applied a heck of a lot of force. Does this give anyone any views? Thanks for all the replies so far.



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Bill Smith

12-19-2003 18:12:33




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 Re: Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-19-2003 09:10:17  
My first thought would be that you drastically over tightened. A 5 foot lever? You don't realize how much force you can put on a bolt with that kind of leverage. A standard torque wrench is what 1 1/2 to 2 foot long. I'm not real strong in the arms and I don't have any trouble torqueing to what, 120 Ft. Lbs. without using any kind of cheater. I cheat like everybody else and use cheater pipes and so on, but mainly to take bolts off. Useing cheaters is a bad habbit to get into, and diffinately a bad idea when putting something together.

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Tim Malin

12-21-2003 17:26:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Bill Smith, 12-19-2003 18:12:33  
What would you suggest I do to fix my error? Take everything back apart? What would I have to remove? Would I need a new gasket? I really don't want to cause any damage, but I don't want to really take it apart either, but i would rather take it apart while it's not seized or anything, too. Thanks for your help, Bill.



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Bill Smith

12-22-2003 09:29:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-21-2003 17:26:10  
Alot of posts here, and in them is various ideas. I believe in my original post I suggested to loosen and retighten correctly. I think I will stick with that. Someone else suggested to just put a torque wrench on and make sure they are atleast as tight as they are suppose to be without reloosening. That would still leave room for the bolts to not be tightened evenly since some, if not all, are to tight. Unevenly is what causes warpeage. I know the head is a big old heavy head but some of its walls are not none to thick. It could warp over time when heated up real hot with bolts tightened unevenly. Just my 2 cents worth.

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Mark

12-17-2003 16:50:06




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 Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-17-2003 12:16:02  
It would take some drastic uneven and high torqing methods, plus extreme high temperatures from working to even come close to warping or cracking the head. We are talking a massive peice of cast iron here with a low commpression engine, not an aluminum head with massive porting and 12 to 1 commpression. Not rocket science to working on these engines. If you have any amount of mechanical skill you tightened the head in an acceptable pattern and judged the torque to be in at least the ball park. If it was drastically over tightened you would have broke a head bolt, way undertorqued you would develop a combustion leak into the cooling system the first time you work the tractor. If you are worried get a torque wrench and retorque in the proper pattern and don't forget to reset your valves. The service manual says to do this anyway after 45 min of run time. If anything you are only 1 step away from completing the job correctly. I would not loosen any head bolts, only tighten if need be.

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twopop

12-17-2003 16:33:03




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 Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-17-2003 12:16:02  
get a good torque wrench and check each bolt to see if it has AT LEAST the proper amount of torque.tighten the loose ones and then forget it.you didnt ruin the gasket,and you didnt twist off a bolt.you probably would have snapped a bolt before the threads stripped or block would crack.If you decide to change the head gasket,then replace all the bolts too.



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buck

12-17-2003 15:58:03




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 Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-17-2003 12:16:02  

Well for gereral feed store talk lets have a look at what you actually did. How big are the head bolts(shaft not head). How long was the wrench and cheater used to tighten the bolts with from the bolt to your hand and how much pressure in pounds do you think you used during the tightening. Keep in mind that it is much easier to pick up a 100 pound anvil than a 100 pound sack of sweet feed. During the tightening did you feel any give or weakening in the bolts as if they were going to break or strip threads.What you have done has been done many times before with good results and also many head bolts have been tightened with the best of torque wrenches with bad results. If you are no stranger to nuts and bolts I would be willing to bet that your head bolts are not too tight but too loose. Your method can easily be checked by putting a like bolt and nut in your vice,tighten as you did on your tractor head and then check with a torque wrench. All this said sequence is as important as a few pounds one way or the other on the bolt torque. Lay your worries aside I think you did a good job.

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NDS

12-17-2003 14:42:10




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 Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-17-2003 12:16:02  
I agree that torque wrench should be used on heads BUT my Dad never owned a torque wrench and for 30 or so years he ran Hs and Ms have seen him overhaul many engines. He never had problems with leaking or cracked heads but he knew how tight to pull them. Back in 50s his tractors often ran 18 to 24 hours day 6 days week in land preparation and planting season and believe me he worked them hard.



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Bob M

12-17-2003 13:09:49




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 Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-17-2003 12:16:02  
You are unlikely to damage the head or the head gasket by overtorquing the bolts. However you run the very real risk of stripping or twisting off a head stud. That in turn can lead to a blown head gasket or warped head if the motor is run like this.

I'd recommend loosening the head bolts, then retightening them using a torque wrench and per instructions detailed in the manual.



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dhermesc

12-17-2003 15:53:58




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 Re: Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Bob M, 12-17-2003 13:09:49  
If you truly believe the bolts are "drasticly" overtight I would get a manual that shows the tightening pattern and reverse it to loosen the bolts. Don't pull the bolts out one by one - if you've gotten by without hurting anything taking them out one with only one or two extremely overtightened bolts holding it might be enough to cause a crack. Replace the head gasket and of it makes your conscious feel better have the head mag fluxed before bolting it back on - borrow a GOOD torque wrench to reapply.

Hope it works out OK.

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Bill Smith

12-17-2003 12:56:49




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 Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-17-2003 12:16:02  
It is a no no to torque the head down in the manner that you are talking about. As Jason has said, if you over tightened the nuts you could of damaged the head gasket. If you tightened un-evenly, you could of warped the head. When tightening any engine related bolts, it is important to use a torque wrench and torque the bolts to the designated amount specified in repair manuel. On a head, sometimes they even have a pattern for sequence the bolts are suppose to be tightened. Ussually in a star pattern, or inside first working your way out. I don't have a manuel for a super M so can't tell you the torque spec, nor the pattern if there is one. If I was you, I would loosen the bolts and retighten correctly. If damage has been done, you will notice compression or water leaks and in either case you will need to replace the head gasket, and if head is warped it will need to be plained to correct the surface back to being perfectly flat.

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aaron

12-17-2003 12:55:02




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 Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-17-2003 12:16:02  
You run the risk of cracking the head if you over tighten the bolts. May even ruin the head gasket. The regular M head is tightened to around 120 ft/lbs I believe. Maybe someone on this board can tell you the spec for the super M.
-Aaron



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jasonr

12-17-2003 12:30:43




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 Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to Tim Malin, 12-17-2003 12:16:02  
you are supposed to use a tourque wrench on head bolts. if you tighten them too tight you'll run the risk of breaking the head. take them loose and re torque it....you might have ruined the head gasket by tightening it too tight as well.....



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jakee

12-17-2003 20:23:05




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 Re: Re: Overtorqued head on Super M in reply to jasonr, 12-17-2003 12:30:43  
the farmall M DOES NOT USE HEAD BOLT,S BUT USES STUDS. first pull the head and set all the stud,s at 20 ft lb,s,look closly at were the studs go into the block to make sure no one has pulled the deck of the block up around the studs.put the head back on with a new gasket.there are like 3 places were you must put this flat washer on then the nut.not just any old tin washer but the one made for those spots.you will find that under those spot,s you will find that threw the head run,s a sleeve.i usally put those very thick washer,s on all stud,s.wen you torqe the head do it in step,s of three-like 40 pounds then go to 70 pounds and then finish with 110.after warming up re-torqe agin at 110. if you hapen to pull the studs out and replace them i think there are 2 that are longer that go under the bracket that hold,s the throttle rod bracket.

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